Question for all you "lead launchers"

[The Arapaho Kid]

You folks are familiar with the Army flapped type holsters....right?  Ok...normally they are worn right hip, butt forward.  I have one like that for my Civil War Uniform.  Now Iffen I was to get two left hip, butt forward....wear one on my rightside (butt back) and the other one on the left side and essentially making it a right hand cross draw...both of these holsters on a single, non Buscadero type belt...could I shoot in Classic Cowboy class?

[Wymore Wrangler]

Kid if your going to cross draw both holsters you could probably do it, but if I remember the RO-1 manual right, I'm at work right now and can't look it up, but the cavalry draw is not legal in SASS events...

[D. R. Greysun]

I have for 30 years used the Bianchi #16L to carry my SBH 44 Mag. When I started CAS it went crossdraw for modern class opposite a Bisley Vaq. holstered in a Bianchi #1898H.  As I went to Traditional, I added a second Bisley Vaq. along with a second 1898H-LH. The 16L still carries my SBH on hunting trips!
D R 

[Camille Eonich]

Arapaho...not with them 32-20s that you have.  Gotta be at least .40 caliber or better.

[The Arapaho Kid]

Ok....lemme try to 'splain this.  I woud get two flapped Army holsters...both normally worn left side butt forward.  One I wear on my right hip and the butt is facing back.  The other one is just a little to the left of my belt buckle in the right hand, cross draw position.  My rig would look like the guy in the white shirt only with flapped Army holsters.

[Tensleep]

Classic Cowboy for SASS is 40 caliber and above, 73, 66 or Henry rifle, and Hammered double or lever shotgun
Holsters being flapped ain't gonna make much difference.

[Book Miser]

...except you're going to lose a lot of time getting your pistols re-holstered, and run a risk of breaking 170 in the process. Pretty expensive "style points" IMO.

[The Arapaho Kid]

...except you're going to lose a lot of time getting your pistols re-holstered, and run a risk of breaking 170 in the process. Pretty expensive "style points" IMO.

This brings up another question:  What is this 170 thing.  No one has ever explained that to me.  I'm not a whole lot worried about time.  I'm not in this for prizes and top gun positions.  I'm it it to launch lead and have fun.  If I come out of each match on the bottom of the barrel....ask me if I care?

[Book Miser]

Think of your gun-hand as the apex of a cone that goes 180 degrees to the left, right, up and down. You wanna keep your muzzles pointed somewhere at least 10 degrees inside that cone at all times. That ensures you are pointed more or less downrange, and not sweeping someone else with the muzzle.

To re-holster in one of those cavalry jobs will require you use your off-hand to hold up the flap. To keep from breaking 170, you'll have to look down at what you're doing, away from the stage, which would cause me one heckuva break in concentration. Not to mention, as you get a little faster, you'll want to holster one gun as you're drawing the other (assuming the scenario requires you shoot two revolvers in a row), and there's no way you can do that with the cavalry flaps. If I were trying this, sooner or later I'd forget the flaps were there, and end up dropping a gun. Stage DQ.

There's plenty enough to keep track of without adding extra distractions. My 2 cents, anyway.

[Stump Water]

Stand facing (perpendicular to) the firing line.  The firing line is an 180 degree "plane". 90 degrees left and 90 degrees right.  The muzzle of any firearm cannot come with in 5 degrees if this "plane".  You have 170 degrees in which to keep the muzzle of your firearms.

NOW. The 170 degree rule extends beyond the "plane" of the firing line.  It is a cone. The muzzle of your firearms may not break 170 degrees ANYWHERE within the "cone".  I.E. you cannot point the muzzle of a firearm straight up.

You cant break 170 degrees this way ----, this way /, or this way \, or this way |  (pretend the lines are your gun's muzzle).

HOWEVER.... the shooter must be allowed the "leeway" to SAFELY draw and holster pistols.  I.E. it may appear that the 170 is broken when a shooter draws and holsters.

[The Arapaho Kid]

Now that I understand the 170 thing....I think you're right.  I'm thinking I'll bag the flapped holster thing and stay with my double Buscadero rig.

[Book Miser]

If you're new to cowboy shooting, the simpler the better.

Just finished my first season at yesterday's Damascus (MD) shoot. I'm still placing in the bottom ten (just barely). Shot two clean stages (one with a bonus), and a total of 8 misses, half of which were on the final stage.

The whole year has been onward-and-upward, me shooting against myself. Only two pistol misses yesterday, which is phenomenal progress. My shotgun shootin' is the pits.

As far as equipment goes, this is by no means the final outfit for me, whether we're talking guns, leather or costume. I've tried to keep things simple and as inexpensive as possible, whilst learning the ropes.

I'm a pretty fair bullseye shooter (1 inch groups at 7 yards with a .357 snubby), but cowboy action is positively humbling.

[The Arapaho Kid]

Well.....I am new to CAS and I have done my first match.  Shot it clean....never missed a target...even the clay pidgeons they had set up....took those too!  Out of 47 shooters I grabbed the 47th. spot...clean as a whistle!  I was a little upset about that....but I had fun getting there!  I just blew it on my timing.

I don't give a darn where I place!  I'm not looking for prizes, trophys and all that.  I'm just out there, slingin' lead and having fun!  CAS is a great stress reliever!  I picture the targets as my old supervisor and manager where I used to work before I retired.

[Driftwood Johnson]

If you want to try a cross draw rig, by all means do it.

I've been shooting cross draw since day one in SASS. You'll hear a lot of baloney about having to do the 'Crossdraw dance' in order to keep from breaking the 170. Not true. The idea is when you draw that cross draw pistol, position your body so that the muzzle is down range when you break leather, and downrange again when you reholster. You will probably have to swivel your hips in order to accomplish that. If you can't do it by just swivelling your hips, and must take a step to reposition your feet, that's OK to. That's the 'Crossdraw Dance'. The important thing to remember is muzzle down range. And don't forget to do it at the loading and unloading tables too, so you don't sweep anybody there either.

[The Arapaho Kid]

If you want to try a cross draw rig, by all means do it.

I've been shooting cross draw since day one in SASS. You'll hear a lot of baloney about having to do the 'Crossdraw dance' in order to keep from breaking the 170. Not true. The idea is when you draw that cross draw pistol, position your body so that the muzzle is down range when you break leather, and downrange again when you reholster. You will probably have to swivel your hips in order to accomplish that. If you can't do it by just swivelling your hips, and must take a step to reposition your feet, that's OK to. That's the 'Crossdraw Dance'. The important thing to remember is muzzle down range. And don't forget to do it at the loading and unloading tables too, so you don't sweep anybody there either.

Driftwood:  Thank you for your input on this.  I do appreciate your comments here.  I understand the 170 thing now and I am still considering getting two of the flapped Army holsters.  I know it's going to take a little more time in removing and replacing the six shooter, but I'm not overly worried about that.  Bottom position on a score card is a position and better than no position at all.  I'm thinking that if I do get the flapped holsters and belt...a little unloaded practice with the cross draw and learning the "Crossdraw Dance" will benefit me.
Again....thank you for your input on this.

[Book Miser]

Arapaho, Good on Ya, shooting your first match clean!

You will almost always get faster, but you can never miss too fast. (i.e., you can't usually shoot fast enough to make up for those 5-second "miss" penalties).

Driftwood, my comment didn't have anything to do with cross draw. I was addressing the problems to be encountered with those full-flap cavalry holsters.

[Lucky Irish Tom]

Go for it Arapaho, you can never accumulate too many style points.  I'd do some off-range, unloaded practice with the rig your considering, its real easy when you change your holster configuration to accidentally drop a gun because your muscle memory isn't used to the new setup.

[The Arapaho Kid]

I'm thinking...if I set that rig up with the Army flapped holsters, a little practice with the "Cross Draw Two-Step" will definitely be in order so I don't break the 170.  When cross drawing the left pistol out a slight turn to the right will prevent that and keep me well within the 170 limit.  I don't see myself having both pistols out at the same time, so lifting the flap with my off hand will be no problem.  I've already contaced my "leatherman" In WV and he can do up the belt for 47 bucks.  I'll be getting two left hip, butt forward holsters from Fall Creek Suttlery.  As for time used....unholstering and reholstering...I'm not overly concerned with that now. 

[Book Miser]

Well Arapaho, I'm a long way from having to worry about shaving tenths of a second myself.

I think you WILL get the hang of those cavalry holsters, if you're disciplined enough to practice at home. I've had some trouble developing that habit. Now that I'm more or less retired, there's so much to do that I don't get to practice my trumpet the way I used to, much less drawing and re-holsterin' guns.

Time was, I worked a nine-to-fiver, sold half a dozen houses a year as a PT realtor, stayed in practice on the horn, and bicycled 120 miles a week. These days, it seems like everything becomes an excuse to take another nap...

[The Arapaho Kid]

Well....once I get that rig set up with those Cav. Holsters...there's no way I'm going out to a match and load live ammo in my six shooters and break the 170.  I will do a lot of practice in front of a mirror before I do the match...keeping in mind the 170 and also the "Cross Draw Two-Step".  I don't have to worry a whole lot about the six shooter in my right hip.  It's that cross draw one I need to be keeping an eye on.  A slight turn to the right will bring that muzzle well within the 170.  As I recall from my first match...I had borrowed a cross draw rig and was told each time I fired to turn slightly to the right when drawing the gun out of the cross draw holster.  At that time I didn't know why they wanted me to do that.  That was because I wasn't familiar with the 170.  Now that I know about it...I will practice with the cross draw until it becomes automatic.  I too am retired and have all kinds of time to practice with it.