what am I doing wrong?

[Tubac]

Gents,
I need some advice. I've been tryin' to load some .44 Colts with outside lubed .451 bullets.
The bullets are well lubed and sized to .451. I'm using LEE dies and .44 special brass. I've tried "belling"
the mouth of the brass with both a .44 and a .45 LC die, and I still shave lead from the bullet. This slight "overage" of lead
binds to the brass and has to be scraped off with a blade.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks for your time and advice.

Tubac

[Dick Dastardly]

What's the size of the "heal" of your bullets.  Sounds like you are trying to load something like a 22 Long Rifle bullet.  There's supposed to be a reduced diameter "heal" on them and you don't seat the bullet beyond the "heal".  Takes a special kind of bullet design to do that.

DD-DLoS

[Pettifogger]

Dick, he  didn't say he was using a healed bullet, just an outside lubed bullet.  Tubac, what exactly are you trying to load?  Modern version of the .44 Colt use a .429 bullet not a .451.  If you are using a .451 expander (which would be dramatically oversizing .44 brass) and are using a healed bullet there is no way it would not go into the case.  If you are using a healed bullet, what are you using to crimp the bullet?  No set of dies made by any current manufacturer is designed to crimp healed bullets.  If you are trying to seat and crimp with a modern die, it ain't gonna work.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

He's using the Old West Mould 248 Grn heeled bullet the heel is .429 it think. Mic the inside necks of the brass and see what they are before you bell...Just a thought to see where you are.

I expand the case with 44 Colt dies and seat in a Lyman 310 hand loader for 44-40(I know this shouldn't work, but it does!). I crimp in the Reworked (by Bernie Knowles at OWM)Lee factory .451 Crimper and I don't have a problem. I resize these in the 44 Colt sizer die (my original Remy's are picky and so is the R & D conversion cylinder)then lube with Bore Butter or Equivalent and put them in the old time cartridge boxes and keep relatively cool, though in 90 deg. temps the BB stayed put.

[Tubac]

I'm using .451 healed bullets from Old West Moulds. I'm loading for a Rogers & Spencer that was converted to .44 Colt.
I have the crimp die from Old West so crimping is no problem. I'm just using the LEE dies to set the bullet and expand the brass.The bases of the heel are .430 so they are a little too big for the brass. I had figured that I could "bell" out the brass to accomidate this, but it's not working. I guess I'll have to take .001 off the bullets.
Tubac

[Tubac]

I thought ( me thinking is a recipe for disaster) that I could get by with a .44 Mag/spec. die set, but looks like I need a .set of .44
Colt dies.
Oh Charlie, I bought a Colt lightning in 32-20, and am waiting on FedEx. That should be a real gas to play with.

Tubac

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

HMMM!
Are you using 44 Colt brass...Starline or BHA(Starline) or something else. I use both and maybe something else too. I bought 2000 brass from Black Hills Ammo way back when. But I don't have a problem with any of the cases.

Mic the inside of the case mouth and see what it is. The 44 Spcl/mag should be the same expander .429. Set your bell deeper a 1/8 turn and see if that helps. I run my expander all the way in till the case hits the stop. Not just the mouth. that bells just enough to get the case OUT of the expander without belling too much.

Hope this helps.

[Tubac]

Thanks Charlie, I'll give that a try.

Tubac

[Dick Dastardly]

Ok, sounds like it's the healed base, not the boolit size that's givin' ya a kickin' fit.  Check yer seating depth.  If yer shovin' yer boolits down over the brass too far, they've gotta shave lead.  In other words, is the heal long enuf to seat to the depth you need?  Resizing the part above the heal won't make no difference if the size and length of the heal are wrong.

Take a look at this.  If you make a test piece with the boolit seated just to the upper end of the heal where the shoulder begins, will it chamber?  If so, simply adjust yer powder charge till the boolit is compressin' it a mite and yer good to go.

Good luck,

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

If you soften the alloy, the resulting cast size will be smaller. 

e.g. If you are casting hard, go down to wheelweight metal.  If W.W. already, try pure lead.

If you are using a bottom pour pot, drop the molten lead rather than holding the mould to the spout. It won't cast smaller, but it will leave a barely noticeable round edge on the bullet base.

Have you tried to use an inside chamfering tool on the case mouth?

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