Low-pressure loads for damascus guns

Oregon Bill · July 26, 2007, 01:39:52 PM

Assuming that the barrels are in very good shape, I'm thinking of putting up some simple 1-ounce loads in 12-gauge Magtech brass shotshells for a hammer double, using the same volume of powder as shot. I suspect these ought to be fine for doves, quail and grouse along with the occasional steel popper. Anyone else shooting damascus, and if so, do you have a favorite easy-does-it load for your old shottie that patterns well?

Sunwapta Haze · July 26, 2007, 05:35:47 PM

I shoot an 1883 WC SCott & Sons Damascas barreled mule earred double and an original 1887 Winchester both in 12 ga..

I too wanted a light load and started with a square load of 4 cc each of powder and shot (about a 1 oz load) but found my gun patterned better if I reduced the powder. I now load all my BP shotshells with 3 cc of ffg, about 3 cc of cornmeal, an over powder card, a 1/2 fiber wad and 4 cc of shot.

Patterns well for my guns. Your milage may vary ...

Dick Dastardly · July 26, 2007, 09:55:13 PM

Ho Sunwapta Haze,

That's a senseable load. One thing I might add is that genuine felt wads have a way of cushioning shot that seems to moderate setback. As a thumbnail guestimate of 16 grains per CC, you are installing 48 grains of black powder. That should indeed be a mild load and performance should be uniform and even patterning at SASS distances.

Let 'er flicker!

DD-DLoS

rifle · July 27, 2007, 12:57:07 AM

I shoot a rabbit eared old Remington. I guess it's an 1880's made gun. I use 70gr. volume FFFg with a plastic wad and 1 1/8th oz. no. 6 shot. I wouldn't shoot it at all with the twist barrel but....it's alright if there are no pits whatsoever. That's as long as it is safely test fired for safety.
I'd think a load of 40 some gr. of powder would be plenty light enough in barrels with no flaws. FFg and especially Fg can be used to fill space for light loads. Like about 60gr. Fg or even 70gr. Fg would still be plenty light and it would take up space so fillers and extra wads wouldn't be needed.
My brother used loads with 40gr. volume FFFg powder and they wouldn't kill rabbits.

He thought he was missing all the time.

They don't use live rabbits at Cowboy shoots though so 40+gr. would be alright.

Sunwapta Haze · July 27, 2007, 10:15:49 AM

Quote from: Dick Dastardly on July 26, 2007, 09:55:13 PMThat's a senseable load. One thing I might add is that genuine felt wads have a way of cushioning shot that seems to moderate setback. As a thumbnail guestimate of 16 grains per CC, you are installing 48 grains of black powder. That should indeed be a mild load and performance should be uniform and even patterning at SASS distances.

Not only does it work for CAS, it knocks down clays as well (as long as I do my part) and saves me money on powder and shot both of which are getting to be more and more costly in these here parts.

rifle · July 27, 2007, 11:55:53 PM

If it works fer ya then that's well.....good. Savin money is good too. Havin less recoil to shoot faster is good too. What about those knock downs? Knock em down? The choke in a shotgun can be a particular variable. Make or break a load. Am I right?

Delmonico · July 28, 2007, 09:06:46 AM

Checking a pattern with a load will tell you far more than how much constriction there is in the chokes. Full, Modifies, and other things stamped on a gun are just names, performance is what counts. Using a shotgun with out checking POI and paterning is like shooting a rifle that has not been sighted in.

Fox Creek Kid · July 28, 2007, 10:18:30 AM

QuoteChecking a pattern with a load will tell you far more than how much constriction there is in the chokes. Full, Modifies, and other things stamped on a gun are just names, performance is what counts.

I'll agree with that 100%. When I patterned my BP loads I went up to a furniture store a mile or so away & "dumpster dived" and used the side of a La-Z-Boy recliner box to pattern in the country. A few shots tell a lot. I then returned the box to the dumpster afterwards.

Delmonico · July 28, 2007, 12:17:58 PM

I use sheets of masking paper stapled to the backstop at my rannge at our farm, With no one to bother me I can check patterns at any range I want. Also be sure to check POI (center of pattern) with the gun normally mounted as you would to shoot. Put one of those large orange dots or something similar up and mount the gun as fast as I can and fire when I get on target. That will tell you where POI is.

Sunwapta Haze · July 28, 2007, 10:13:17 PM

Quote from: rifle on July 27, 2007, 11:55:53 PMWhat about those knock downs? Knock em down? The choke in a shotgun can be a particular variable. Make or break a load. Am I right?

Right you are. My first loads threw wide patterns with gaping holes - at least through the SxS - no chokes what so ever in that one. So I tired a lot of different loads based upon information posted at a black powder shotgun site (I don't recall which one). Basically there are 3 ways to improve a BP shotgun's pattern. 1. throw more lead than powder - the recommendation was 1/3 more lead (by volume) than powder, 2. use a larger shot size or 3. use a shot cup.

I loaded up rounds with equal volumes of powder/shot (4 cc each) using #7 1/2 and #6 shot with and without shot cups, 4cc/5.3cc powder/shot ratio rounds using #7 1/2 and #6 shot with and without shot cups and 3cc/4cc powder/shot ratio rounds using #7 1/2 and #6 shot with and without shot cups. The results for these loads with my SxS indicated that using #6 shot instead of #7 1/2 tightened the pattern by about 25%, throwing less powder (3cc/4cc of #71/2) tightened the pattern by about 20%, throwing more lead (4cc/5.3cc of #71/2) had no effect on the pattern and using a shot cup always tightened the pattern, as compared to the base load of 4cc/4cc of #7 1/2. Interestingly enough, the square load (4cc/4cc) and both the 4cc/5.3cc and 3cc/4cc loads with #6 shot all threw the same pattern. So I'm thinking why waste powder and lead?

Now as my main match gun has become the 87 Winchester I tested these loads in it as well. This shotgun is choked and throws a nice tight pattern with all the loads. Being a cost sensitive individual who wants things nice and simple I decided to use the 3 cc of powder pushing 4 cc of #6 shot without a shot cup for both shotguns. Never had a problem with the knockdowns after I went to this load.

Your mileage may vary but if you don't pattern your shotgun you will never know ...

rickk · July 28, 2007, 10:45:05 PM

I use 50 grains of 1F and 1 ounce of shot in my 12G damascus SxS. recoil is nil, and noise is low as well.... fun to shoot.

Maks sure your hulls are the appropriate size for the chamber. I cut down plastic hulls to 2-1/2 inches, use paper/fiber wads, and roll crimp.

Rick

Oregon Bill · August 02, 2007, 01:05:20 PM

Fellas, there's a whole lot of sense in your words. I'm going to start with the square load of 4cc FFg and No. 6 shot in Magtech al brass 2 1/2-inch cases in the Husqvarna 12 gauge double and see how she patterns.

Steel Horse Bailey · August 03, 2007, 04:51:48 PM

Quote from: Sunwapta Haze on July 28, 2007, 10:13:17 PM
.......... edited for content by SHB:
Being a cost sensitive individual who wants things nice and simple I decided to use the 3 cc of powder pushing 4 cc of #6 shot without a shot cup for both shotguns. Never had a problem with the knockdowns after I went to this load.

Your mileage may vary but if you don't pattern your shotgun you will never know ...

Well, Mr. Haze, you got that right! Especially the LAST statement!