Is it really?

[Forty Rod]

Okay, we all know the economy is in the toilet.  The liberal news media tells us so, the liberal politicians tell us so, and liberal celebrities all tell us so.

Is it really?



I was born in 1942.  The Doe Jones Industrial Average was at just over 95.

In 1960 I graduated from high school and the Dow  was 626.

In 1965 when I graduated from college it was up to 868.

Two months later I got married and it was on a roll at 881.

It was down to 836 when I left the active duty the Army in '69.

Back up to 1,018 in '72 when I resigned my Army commission and joined the Marine Corps.

When I bought my first, and so far only, house in 1977 the DOW had fallen to 926.

It had dropped even further to 770 less than two years later when I left the Corps.

I joined Primerica Financial Services in early January of 1994 when the DOW was about 3,914.  Clinton had been in office a year.

It was at 10,887 when Bush took office.

After 9-11-2001 when the attacks on New York and Washington, D. C. took place, the Dow dropped to around 8,848.

Today they are right at 14,000.



My Dad was a college professor who usually had a second job, and Mom was a public school teacher.  I doubt out total family income ever exceeded $16-17,000 a year until I left home in 1965.

We had one of the first TV sets in Logan, Utah in 1952.  The only other one I knew of belonged to Coach John Ronning who brought one with him when he moved to town.

I was 16 years old before the family got a second car.  They got the first color TV the year I graduated from college.

The first apartment my wife and I had cost me $69.00 a month for a rat-trap walk-up at Baldwin Park in Aberdeen, Maryland.  I was driving a 1957 Dodge with 7 functional cylinders and earning $492.00 a month as a second lieutenant in the Army.  Within a year, I earned a promotion, had my credentials as a married man approved (long story) and congress voter us a raise.  My income went to $804.00.

I bought my first new car, a 1600 cc1968 Datsun Fairlady roadster for $1,908 out the door. It had a radio and something that was reportedly a FM/AM radio.  No other accessories nor amenities.

My first job after I was released from active duty paid $330.30 a month for teaching between 32 and 37 sixth graders in Brigham City, Utah.

Our house cost $44,650.00 with a marvelously low 8% GI loan.  It was the first house I ever lived in with air conditioning and a two car garage.  It was only the second that had two bathrooms and more than three bedrooms.

Today I know many people who own three or more cars for a family of two, have many thousands of dollars worth of tools, entertainment centers, toys of all sorts, more clothes than they can ever wear, and credit card debt into the tens of thousands of dollars...or more.

A lot of them take several vacations a year, go to supper several times a month, take in shows and other entertainments, think nothing of dropping $6.00 a cup for "coffee" at Starbucks, and drive gas guzzlers more than 500 miles a week.

I'm retired and have more disposable income now than at any time in my life.

The economy is friggin GREAT folks!!!

If you listen to most news people, politicians, and/or left-wing celebrities, you'll end up French kissing a .45.

[Wymore Wrangler]

Sounds like ya got it figured right...

[The Elderly Kid]

I don't think the Dow is a good index of the health of the economy. It just means that the stockholders in a small handful of companies that were prominent in the '20s are making out like bandits. One reason for that is that they no longer have to pay Americans a living wage. Instead, they have a virtual slave workforce in Asia. That said, I don't think the economy is in bad shape, just that the current prosperity is far more precarious than most people think, built largely on debt rather than production.

[Forty Rod]

EK, most of the companies on the DJIA weren't there in the beginning.

Just to even things out, lets take jobs, inflation, adjusted incomes, percentage of disposable income used for non-essentials, standard of living, access to health care, occupational safety adjustments, life spans, adjusted annual income, and a ton of other factors and my analysis still stands: the economy is great!!!

[Varmint]

EK, most of the companies on the DJIA weren't there in the beginning.

Just to even things out, lets take jobs, inflation, adjusted incomes, percentage of disposable income used for non-essentials, standard of living, access to health care, occupational safety adjustments, life spans, adjusted annual income, and a ton of other factors and my analysis still stands: the economy is great!!!

Anyone remember International Harvester?  Used to be one of the movers and shakers on the Dow.  Many companies have come and gone.  There are several indexes of the market.  If you want small caps which are smaller companies or companies with more high tech there are those also.  They've all done really well over time.  The thing I worry about is that some terrorist actually gets through and people panic causing the market to go down.  When those things happen then even companies that aren't publicly traded get hurt.

[The Elderly Kid]

Quite a change in 14 months. How are people feeling about the economy today?

[L.G.]

Well, the government (congress) can't be to worried, they complain about unemployment but at the same time increase the number of visa's for foriegn workers!  They did wrong bailing out companies and allowing the exec's to get away with millions of dollars instead of telling they're fired and pay stops now!

[Dead Eye Dave]

You're using personal and anecdotal evidence rather than empirical.  And its a bit disingenuous to say that only"left wing" and "liberal" pundits(reporters etc) are talking about how bad the economy is.  That info has been coming from both sides of the aisle so to speak.  You may be doing quite well.  I know quite a few that are not.  People are scared.  That affects the economy as much as anything does.  With what has happened on Wall Street the past couple of days, we may be seeing the tip of the iceberg.  I hope not.  That scares me.  I can remember 8 years ago when the economy was doing fairly well and the incoming administration started talking it down even before he took office.  Talking about GWB here.  ( and yes I'll say it, a president I personally detest)  When an incoming President is trash talking the economy from the get go that can also make people panic.  Don't use personal observations to make a guess (yes a guess) about the whole.  You need hard evidence not anecdotal. 

[DR.A.W.FAST]

I also think luck and good decision making over the years makes a big differance. Maybe thats why my life is in the toilet,LOL. The DOW has been usurped I think by the FED and the latest decisions by both and our Congress critters are realy going to make things difficult for many in the next few years. Don't forget, those buyouts and handouts to these financial entities are out of yours and my pockets. That money they are so cavalierly handing out is ours,not thiers!!! Our kids will be paying this off and our retirements are in jepardy.

Doc

[Curley Cole]

Well, here is some more personal and anecdotal "evidence" to go with 4Trods:

I have a pay stub from my mom at the same job I do now. for a months pay in 19and57 she got $190 gross, $160  take home.

My mom married a farm worker and in 19and58 he was making $60 a week.
my first house cost $14,000 for 1/2 acre and even had a rental. Payment was $150 per month.
When I started at the job I am about to retire from in 19and66 I was getting $356 per month. (got huge raise in 6 months to $409 per month.

My wife just retired and got her first Social Security check and first retirement check. They combined are only about $100 less then she was making while working. I am retiring in December, and can't get my SS til next Sept. So I will lose about $400 per month (remember that was what I got in salary in 19and66) and now I am ok with losing it.
Life if pretty good for me as well, but I think the economy is not as well off, I just hope the next prez. makes the right choices.

curley

[Books OToole]

My old man pointed out that:

When all those people on Wall Street are panic selling;  someone is buying.

Books

[Forty Rod]

You're using personal and anecdotal evidence rather than empirical.  And its a bit disingenuous to say that only"left wing" and "liberal" pundits(reporters etc) are talking about how bad the economy is.  That info has been coming from both sides of the aisle so to speak.  You may be doing quite well.  I know quite a few that are not.  People are scared.  That affects the economy as much as anything does.  With what has happened on Wall Street the past couple of days, we may be seeing the tip of the iceberg.  I hope not.  That scares me.  I can remember 8 years ago when the economy was doing fairly well and the incoming administration started talking it down even before he took office.  Talking about GWB here.  ( and yes I'll say it, a president I personally detest)  When an incoming President is trash talking the economy from the get go that can also make people panic.  Don't use personal observations to make a guess (yes a guess) about the whole.  You need hard evidence not anecdotal. 

I know people who are hurting, too.  Most of them made bad coices and over-extended themselves, but the CONGRESS is directly responsible for the housing market going to hell, and for Fannie an Freddy turning tits up, and for the oil cost going through the roof, and for a lot of other crap that's sending things to hell.  I'm not blaming the Dems for all of it, but they certainly carry most of the burden.

Your feelings about Bush are totally irrelevant because he isn't the one who makes ANY financial decisions for the country. I spent 12 years in financial services starting in 1993 and the DOW was under 6,000 (IIRC).  It went up to 13,000 and was doing fine until 2006 when we decided that we needed a Democrat congress to sort things out.  I hope we figured out that government...ANY government... intervention isn't the answer to the country's financial problems. 

I won't bet on it, though.