another reloading Question

[Compass Will]

Howdy folks, as you can tell I am new around here, but I already read just about every post on here over the last couple of months.

Just got a Uberti Cattleman in 45 Colt.  I needed something that left bigger holes in the target then my Single Six

Anyway, going back 20 years ago, I used to reload around 400 rounds per week in 38, 357 and 44mag, then I got out of shooting when I met my wife to be and sold my press to a friend who was going to use it.  Now that my Daughter is getting older, I needed a new hobby so I joined the local range and started getting back into Single Action Shooting.  My range does not have CAS shooting, but they do have cowboy silhouette, which will be enough to keep me busy for a while.

Now around to the question:  I know the common answer here is to read all the books, and I agree.  I already know what kind of loading gear I can afford, but my question is powder.

For starters, I will be using smokeless  What powder would you recommend I start with? 
Also what bullet weight would you Recommend for starters? Since I would probably buy 1000, where should I start?

There are so many choices of powder; I figure I would get a recommendation on what flavor to start with instead of just picking one and wishing I had started somewhere else.


PS: The dark side will come, I just want to practice reloading some before I switch

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings, CW!

   Since you have prior experience reloading, You just need to get some reloading gear together, or use a buddy's set-up. Be sure to get the latest LYMAN Reloading Manual, too!
   I love the .45C {Almost as much as I LOVE the .38WCF!!!}, and my favorite powder for factory and ever so slightly warmer handloads is Alliant UNIQUE with a standard Large Pistol primer. This is pretty much the standard powder for the .45C, the .44-40, and the .38-40, and it simply works perfectly for that cartridge power level. Although I don't like giving charges, I've found that 8.0 ~ 8.5gr. of Unique is perfect; however, take note that MY CHARGES ARE MAXIMUM or NEAR MAXIMUM in LYMAN and some other reloading manuals... Start your powder 0.5 ~ 1.0gr lighter!!!
   Since I cast my own bullets, you'd be better off asking around for good deals on store bought lead bullets; one thing you DON'T WANT in the .45C {Loaded to Standard Colt SAA levels!} is Linotype, or some other HARD lead alloy. I will almost guarantee You that your Cattleman .45C will shoot wonderfully with SOFTER lead bullets of .454" diameter {NOT .452"!} that will fit your sized & belled .45C brass Very Snug.
   Keep Us posted on your progress, and Welcome Back!

   Be Well!

             M.T.Marfield:.
                7-03-07

[Compass Will]

Thanks M.T.  I was thinking Unique, but I want to here from the folks that already are reloading.

as far as bulllets, I am still educating myself on them.  I have to visit the local reloading store and see what he has.  I was not sure on the size. So .454 is what I should run through the Uberti?   

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I've recently switcvhed all my reloading for CAS to Trail Boss powder. It's a high-volume smikeless that is easy on the hands and equipment even at full boat loads. More accurate to boot. I load Bear Creek bullets. In my pistols, the 205 gr RNFP moly 45's shoot at POA with no fiddling on the sights. As to brass, I recently started oading the Cowboy 45 Specials that Adirondack Jack makes and sells. they're even more accurate than the 45 lc cases because of the more consistent burn you get with a smaller volume case. Great results with both. I've been using the bullets for years, but the cases just came out and I'm a convert.

My load is: C45S cases, Win std/mag primers, 4.5 gr Trail Boss powder, 205 gr RNFP moly BC bullet.

IMR Trailboss Loading Data

Adirondack Jack's Trading Post

Bear Creek Supply

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

First some comments about 45 Colt and bullet diameter. I'm going to paste something in here that I wrote over on the SASS Wire a few weeks ago, to save retyping:

*******

It depends on the diameter of your chamber throats. Chamber throats can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and gun to gun.

You probably do not have to slug your barrel, most 45s are pretty good at holding the standard .451 groove diameter. Although slugging a barrel is really easy.

Typically, bullets for 45 Colt are available in two diameters, .452 and .454. The .454 size is really for pre-WWII Colts that had barrel grooves of .454. After WWII 45 Colt barrel groove diameter was changed to .451 to match the diameter of the 45ACP cartridge.

Determinging the proper size bullet for a 45 Colt revolver you actually have to work backwards. Most important is the diameter of your chamber throats. Ideally you want your bullet to be the same diameter, or just .001 or .002 smaller than your chamber throats. Any smaller and gas will blow by the bullet before it leaves the chamber throat, causing leading and possibly upsetting the bullet before it reaches the forcing cone. Ideally, chamber throat diameter should perfectly match the rifling groove diameter. Unfortunately, revolver manufacturers have not always done a great job of matching up chamber throat diameters to groove diameter. My Rugers are right on the money at around .451-.452. My Second Gen Colts are typical of that Generation in that they have oversized throats, around .456 in diameter.

Here is a simple test you can do if you can get a couple of sample bullets of the two different diameters. Remove the cylinder from the gun and hold it vertically with the chamber throats down. Take a bullet and drop it into a chamber. If the bullet drops right through it is too small. If it hangs up in the throat and can be shoved through the chamber with light thumb pressure, it is ideal. If you have to really shove it through, it is probably too large. Be sure to try all 6 chambers, they can vary, even in the same cylinder.

With oversized chamber throats, .454 bullets are a good option. They well seal better in the throat than a .452, and will get sized down to .451 in the rifling. This is not a pressure problem as long as bullets are reasonably soft and loads are moderate. With chamber throats that are closer to spec, like my Rugers, there is no point to using a .454 bullet and .452 should be fine.

*****

OK, that's the scoop on bullet diameter and 45 Colt. If you can get a few sample bullets you can determine what your pistols need. Personally, I shoot .452 in all my 45 Colt revolvers, including my 2nd Gen Colts with their oversized chamber throats. I shoot Black Powder and cast my bullets very soft, so they probably bump up in diameter when they leave the case.

Might as well talk about bullet weight for a moment while we're at it. The traditional bullet for 45 Colt is a 250 grain round nosed bullet. That is the bullet the cartridge was designed for back in 1873. In the world of CAS, shooters who are concerned with shooting fast often try to minimize recoil with the 45 Colt by down loading it. They often attempt to recreate 38 Special ballistics in the 45 Colt. The 45 Colt does not do this very well. 45 Colt was originally designed as a big, powerfull man stopper. It does that very well with a 250 grain bullet and a stout powder charge. Part of the problem is the huge case capacity. The case was originally sized to hold 40 grains of Black Powder. Once Smokeless is put into it, the charge occupies much less volume than the original 40 grain BP load. This means there is a lot of empty airspace in the case. Lots of empty airspace can lead to poor ignition and inconsistant burning of the powder. Couple that with a light bullet, and powder burn can get even spottier. Some CAS shooters have migrated down to very light 160 grain bullets in the 45 Colt in an attempt to lessen muzzle flip. Personally, I have found that 45 Colt works best with bullets in the 230-250 grain range.

You mentioned you are going to be shooting Cowboy Silhouette. I dunno what range you will be shooting at, but I suspect you will want a stout load.

My own standard Smokeless load for 45 Colt has always been 7.5 grains of Unique and a 250 grain Round Nosed Flat Point bullet. This is a bit under the max, but it still generates enough pressure to work well in the big cavernous 45 Colt case.

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings Again, CW!

   DJ is absolutely right on the cylinder leade issue... Mike them, and if they say .451", .453", whichever, I would size .001" OVER so the bullet is a press fit / snug fit in the leade. If your leade is .456" or .457", which is, believe it or not, common these days, use a softer alloy bullet of .454".
   DJ is also right about modern barrels being cut to .451" ~ .452"; that seems like a whole lot of squeezing for the .454" bullet, but don't worry: IT WILL FIT! Just make sure you begin your load development on the light side, and work up! I also suggest that your slug have a very tight fit in the case neck!
   I have to say that the Lyman Manual is probably STILL the best out there; again, if you don't have access to one, get one! Keep us posted!

   Be Well!

        M.T.Marfield:.
           7-04-07   

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,

I can't disagree that Unique is an excellent powder for the .45 LC, providing it is used for loads in the black powder equivalent range (775-830 ft/sec with 250 gr. bullets).  Another powder I have come to like to the point where I use it for .45 LC, .44-40 and .44 Extra Long Russian (that's .44-40 equivalent loads in .44 Magnum brass), is Hodgdon's UNIVERSAL.  (NOTE: "UNIVERSAL Clays" is the name Hodgdon's assigned to it originally. I DO NOT like appending the "Clays" to UNIVERSAL, as it invites confusion with Hodgdon's (plain) CLAYS.  UNIVERSAL has a burning rate close to Unique, whereas Clays is a faster-burner, similar to Bullseye! DO NOT CONFUSE UNIVERSAL with CLAYS!  Consult Hodgdon's website for recommended loadings.  With either Unique or Universal, which are medium-burning rate pistol powders (work fine in your rifle, too), I recommend bullets NO LIGHTER THAN 200 grains, and 230 are better if you want to go lighter than the 250 gr.

One caveat about ANY CAS-legal (<1000 ft/sec from your pistols, 1400 ft/sec for your rifle...and, trust me, if the load is okay in your pistols, it won't get near 1400 ft/sec in most rifles), smokeless loads, with the possible exception of Trail Boss, is that the .45 LC case will hold double charges of powder!!!  Use caution when loading.  If using a single-stage press, visually check the charged cases sitting in a loading block for any charges that look higher in the case than the majority!  If using a progressive press, be SURE to remove and examine any case where you may have "double-clutched" in working the lever, or if any cases come out without bullets!  You may have loaded two bullets in a single case!  Either can blow a Colt's design (modern or not) sixgun, and probably won't do Ruger's much good!

If you intend to shoot very light loads, IMHO, the .45 LC or the .44-40 or .38-40 are POOR CHOICES for much reduced smokeless loads!  For loads in the 650-750 ft/sec range in .45 LC, I commend to your usage the NEW ".45 Cowboy Special" cases being sold by Adirondack Jack!  These have the rim and base dimensions of the .45 LC, but the case length and capacity of the .45 Auto Rim/.45 ACP.  Data for .45 AR works fine.  The only difficulty with the .45 Cowboy Spl. is that due to the short length, you MAY have difficulty feeding them through M92 Winchester (Rossi) or Marlins, and possibly through toggle-link action rifles, without modiication.

Wishing you and all a Happy, Safe 4th of July, I am,

[Compass Will]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I was shooting factory ammo this weekend, I could shoot that stuff all day without a problem.  I did spend some time talking to the family next to me, he gave one one load that he uses in his guns for CAS, it felt real nice.  Just a little softer but not much.  He gave me the number of the local guy that casts his bullets, I think I will give him a call after I get back from Vacation next week