Pure lead for original bullets ?

[tom]

Hi frends,

Do you know if  spencer original bullets where of pure lead or other composition ??

By from France

alain

[Fox Creek Kid]

Cela est une très bonne question, mon ami étranger ! Je m'imaginerais "Pb" pur comme les compagnies américaines n'ont pas utilisé d'alliages avant les 1870 ultérieurs. What is the French word for lead? Oui, je sais que mon français écrit est la merde!! 

[tom]

Très cher ami américain,

Je suis vraiment très heureux de ces quelques mots en Français, ton français écrit n'est pas du tout de la merde car il est très compréhensible......
Me, I can say my english is very bad and I help me with online translator      .........I should like to be better during my young school time !!! 

I am a french old west reenactor since 25 years and all informations about our hobby comes from USA, this is the reason I should like speak better but it is too late for me.

Here my Spencer carbine new model 56-50





It is really a pleasure to shoot this marvellous carbine.........

[Mick Archer]

 Howdy Pards!

  To the best of my knowledge, the bullets were pure lead.
   IMHO, alloyed bullets come later as rifle design and cartridge design i nthe 1880's started to produce velocities in excess of 1,000 fps, and there was a need to prevent bullet melting at the base- whichlater led to jacketed bullets in the 1890's, etc, etc..,

   In reviewing U.S. Ordnance Department correspondence with Spencer ammo makers, such as Crittenden and Tibbal, there are detailed breakdowns of cartridge making component costs like lead at 18 cents a pound, or the price of copper for the case, etc.,.  In those accounts there is no mention of tin or antimony, etc.

   I have 7 or 8 Spencer cartridges and several bullets lying about, and while they have not been subjected to metalurgical/chemical analysis, they appear to be pure lead.

   Of course, I may be wrong...  Je crois que non...

    Mick Archer

[tom]

Thank you mick,

I think aslo it is right for pure lead......

The report N0 4636 of 4th july 1867 for anticipated military sales of spencer repeaters to canada, france and england note the result of  spencer repeating rifles tests.

- The BALL AND LAMSON magazine containing 8 cartridges giving a total of 40 shoots fired in 2 minutes and 52 seconds.
It was then fired as a single loader, without using the magazine at the rates of 20 shoots in 1 minute and 15 seconds.
bullet: Pure lead, cylindro-conoidal, 2 canelures, solid compound lubrification..........

- The SPENCER magazine containing 7 cartridges was loaded and the magazine emptied twice, giving a total of 14 shoots in 1 minute and 33 seconds. The cartridge was jammed in the magazine while refilling it, so that the stopper could not be forced home.
The trial was discontinued.
bullet: Pure lead, cylindro-conoidal, 2 cannelures, wax lubrication.

-The HENRY magazine containing 15 cartridges was loaded and the magazine emptied 3 times, giving a total of 45 shoots in 1 minute 36 seconds.
bullet: pure lead, solid cylindroconoidal, point flattened, 4 cannelures, lubrification apparently wax.

Sure, one analysis of your antiques Spencer cartridges is not possible, I understand.

the  exellent book "the spencer repeating firearms" by Roy. M.Marcot indicate : most Springfield 50 caliber carbine cartridges contained 350 grains lead bullet and 45 grains of black powder......

- A typical 56-52 round had 380 grains lead bullet and 45 grains of black powder.



 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Sharps, Winchester, UMC, etc., alloyed their paper patched "boullettes" beginning in the mid to late 1870's because they shot better as they did not "slump" upon ignition. There seems to have been some scientific research behind this as for example the 44-77 was 16 to 1 and 44-90 was 14 to 1 lead to tin. "Slumping" is no real factor in BP pistol cartridges as the bullets are lighter, hence offering less resistance upon obturation. Interestingly, most people seem to have better results with harder bullets in the 56-56 & 56-50 Spencers. I only shoot rendered wheelwights (with some tin tossed in) and they shoot great. I do not cast pure lead as it's costly and a pain in the butt to cast without defects, requiring higher temps to cast good.

[Bead Swinger]

I'm surmising here, but I think the answer is 'No' (or 'Non', depending on which language we're writing in...).
Reason: Pure lead is too soft for a secure heeled bullet to remain in the cartridge, unless there is something about copper that makes it better than brass.

Subjective support: The original round I have seems harder to scratch than what I normally cast, which is pretty soft.

[geo]

my 2 cents worth: i use wheel weight lead in all my breechloading bp rifles including my bp pistols. a softer lead is needed for muzzleloaders loading minie balls (inorder to flare the bullet skirt). good luck, geo.

[Harve Curry]

The original 56-56 cartridge I have, and one other a friend has, appear to be pure lead. It's very soft.

What I shoot in it is wheel weight alloy dropped into water from the mold.

[Cyrille]

My French is a bit rusty as I haven't spoken it or heard it spoken for a number of years now. besides It's a Cajun dialect so I doubt you would understand it anyway.
Hardcast bullets i.e. linotype is better for casting high volocity projectiles, but is also acceptical (as far as I know) for low volocity bullets 750 t0 1,000 fps. An alloy 20/1 is the most used (again to the best of my knowledge) for casting low volocity bullets. these two lead mixtures melt at a lower temputure than pure lead and are eaiser to get more uniform bullets from, in my experance.

[tom]

No problemo Cyrille,

I like cajun music...........

It's the same for me, simple lead for black powder  and linotype or mix for smokeless powder.........