Justifiable?

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

Source document for this thread is a small booklet, So Said The Coroner, How they Died In Old Cochise, by Grace McCool.

"James Van killed Mike Anglin in Ben Wood's saloon in Charleston on August 9, 1888.  Mr Van was a sedate and dignified gentleman, who was standing at the bar drinking a glass of beer.  He was not the type to stand for any foolishness.  According to testimony, he did not even know Anglin.

"Suddenly, Anglin reached over and removed Mr. Van's nice, clean handkerchief from his vest pocket and blew his nose on it.  Mr. Van stalked out of the saloon, and went to his hotel room and returned with a nickle plated pistol and shot Anglin dead.  The coroner's jury did not hold him for trial."

[Foothills Drifter]

Howdy......
I think the outcome might be a little different today. If I remember it right, Capt. Call said 'I don't like rude behavure in a man. I won't tollerate it'

Good shootin......
Vern...

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

"Jim Hickey was shot and killed in Charleston by William Claibourne (ever heard that name before? - Hamp) between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. on October 1, 1881.

"Claibourne was five feet, four inches tall, and was a native of Louisana but came to Arizona as a cowboy with John Slaughter.  He was nineteen at the time he killed Hickey, who was drunk and kept following Claibourne around offering to fight.  The two left Ben Wood's saloon, walked across the street to J.B. Ayers' saloon and from there to Harry Queen's saloon.

"Claibourne said, "Now, stay away from me" and shot.  A little blue hole appeared between Hickey's eyes and he slumped to the board sidewalk.  Clalibourne was arrested by Constable Clark and stood trial in Tombstone, but was acquitted because Hickey was armed."

[Delmonico]

I wonder if the Hickey was a relative of mine?

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

I wonder if the Hickey was a relative of mine?

Probly not.  Didn't say anythin' 'bout him bein' much good with sourdough an' such.

[Standpat Steve]

"Jim Hickey was shot and killed in Charleston by William Claibourne (ever heard that name before? - Hamp) between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. on October 1, 1881.

"Claibourne said, "Now, stay away from me" and shot.  A little blue hole appeared between Hickey's eyes and he slumped to the board sidewalk.  Clalibourne was arrested by Constable Clark and stood trial in Tombstone, but was acquitted because Hickey was armed."

I can never tell when I read things like this-is this really the way they thought, or is the way they thought if they liked you?

[Delmonico]

I'm the only sourdough in the family anyway.  I do need to do some research on that side of the family.  There also was a Hickey who was a hide buyer for Lobenstein (sp) in I believe Levenworth Kansas the went out on the Texas buffalo range and bought the hides and arranged for them to be transported back to the home office.  they were the largest buyer of hides and it is said this Hickey bought more buffalo hides than any other man.

My mothers mother was a Hickey.  Grandmother had some interesting brothers, the last one passed away a couple of years ago and was in his 90's and still roller skated, he ran roller skating rinks all his life, last time I talked to him he was back for a funeral and was telling me about his new roller blades he had bought, he could not wait to try them out, just as soon as the skin grafts on his ankles healed up.  His leaf burnin' got out of control and he got burned keepin' the fire from spreadin and startin' the whole town on fire, which he did. 

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

"Jim Hickey was shot and killed in Charleston by William Claibourne (ever heard that name before? - Hamp) between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. on October 1, 1881.

"Claibourne said, "Now, stay away from me" and shot.  A little blue hole appeared between Hickey's eyes and he slumped to the board sidewalk.  Clalibourne was arrested by Constable Clark and stood trial in Tombstone, but was acquitted because Hickey was armed."

I can never tell when I read things like this-is this really the way they thought, or is the way they thought if they liked you?

I honestly believe that some times the folks who made up the coroner's jury felt that the deceased really needed killin', or deserved what he got, and went ahead and gave the shooter a walk, regardless of how the "Law" read.

[RowdyBill]

Source document for this thread is a small booklet, So Said The Coroner, How they Died In Old Cochise, by Grace McCool.

"James Van killed Mike Anglin in Ben Wood's saloon in Charleston on August 9, 1888.  Mr Van was a sedate and dignified gentleman, who was standing at the bar drinking a glass of beer.  He was not the type to stand for any foolishness.  According to testimony, he did not even know Anglin.

"Suddenly, Anglin reached over and removed Mr. Van's nice, clean handkerchief from his vest pocket and blew his nose on it.  Mr. Van stalked out of the saloon, and went to his hotel room and returned with a nickle plated pistol and shot Anglin dead.  The coroner's jury did not hold him for trial."

Shooting him was not justifiable.  Pistol whipping, maybe.  And, of course, it depends upon the mentality and health of the offending person.  Someone with mental delusions or something else going on, shouldn't be punished really.  Perhaps just walk away.  But a bully should have been pistol-whipped.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

I believe that Charleston has a connection to the Curley Bill/Earp/Cowboys saga as well. Was just reading trough an article in an old Wild West on Curley and IIRC, Curley spent quite a bit of time there. Place was kinda notorious................Buck

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Source document for this thread is a small booklet, So Said The Coroner, How they Died In Old Cochise, by Grace McCool.

"James Van killed Mike Anglin in Ben Wood's saloon in Charleston on August 9, 1888.  Mr Van was a sedate and dignified gentleman, who was standing at the bar drinking a glass of beer.  He was not the type to stand for any foolishness.  According to testimony, he did not even know Anglin.

"Suddenly, Anglin reached over and removed Mr. Van's nice, clean handkerchief from his vest pocket and blew his nose on it.  Mr. Van stalked out of the saloon, and went to his hotel room and returned with a nickle plated pistol and shot Anglin dead.  The coroner's jury did not hold him for trial."

Shooting him was not justifiable. Pistol whipping, maybe. And, of course, it depends upon the mentality and health of the offending person. Someone with mental delusions or something else going on, shouldn't be punished really. Perhaps just walk away. But a bully should have been pistol-whipped.

I'm not sure a proper gentleman would get down in the muck.  Shooting is good enough..

[Col. Riddles]

Buck, Charleston is about 9 miles SW of Tombstone. It was the home of the Clanton ranch. It's on private property now & there isn't much to see except a few adobe ruins.

[Will Ketchum]

I agree with Hext.  That was a different time.  We cannot judge them by todays standards.

A man was not expected to suffer an insult, especially when he was just minding his own business.  Men were expected to conduct themselves in a manner that didn't impinge on another's rights.  If he didn't he would suffer the consequences.

Will Ketchum

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Thanks, Col.. While looking for something else I refound this particular issue of Wild West. It had a large article on the shootout by Casey Terfertiller and someone else as well as a smaller one on "The Vendetta", and a background guess on Curley Bill. It mentioned Charleston and Galeyville as well and has a period picture of what you referred to as adobe ruins there. It does show adobes, two of them. The article makes me want to get Terfertiller's book and the one by Lee Silva. One of the others has an article by Silva on the Buntline's. Another that I had , had an article on the shotgun used by Doc, but it's packed away somewheres at the moment. I'd sure like to reread that one as well................Buck

[Second Creek Sam]

Different times, inded.

In those days to allow such an affront to one's manhood would have surely been followed by subsequent bullying, extortion, etc.

On the frontier, it was important to project an image of strength so that predators would leave you alone.

Today, you'd surely be sentenced to prison for such a reaction.

The proper way to settle scores in today's world is to weild a crafty lawyer and sue your opponent into ruin.

I don't know, but somehow I think I'd prefer taking my chances with sixguns at "High Noon" than with crooked lawyers like Garagos, et al.