Which conversion?

[Purvis1]

Hey all,

I'm new and was wondering which cyllinder conversion would best fit my Uberti '58.  It's a cast frame w/ a 5.5" barrel.  I searched a post that mentioned a difficulty with the Kirst in a 5.5".  I'm fair with a millbastard, but ain't willin with a millin machine.  Any input would be much obliged.  I'm partial to the Kirst design, but will entertain notions from folks who know more.
Thanks,
Jon Purvis

[Marshal Will Wingam]

The only part of my gated Kirst conversion on my 5 1/2" pistol that posed any real concern was putting the ejector on it. You have to file a notch in the loading lever right about the place where the latch spring is inside the end of the lever. To avoid interfering with that, I filed the tab thinner so I only needed half the depth of the notch. You can see where the notch is in the photo. If you aren't putting an ejector on it, this isn't a problem.

Mine didn't want to lock up, so I took a little bit off the bolt and cut ramps into the cylinder to fix it.

[Deadeye Don]

I have had great luck with RandD cylinders as have thousands of other pards. Safes shooting.  Deadeye.

[Cincy Slim]

Howdy,

I went with a Kirst on my Pietta Remmie because I wanted a loading gate. It worked fine but if I had it to do over I'd probably go with the R&D since it is so easy to drop the cylinder out of a Remmie. You can actually drop the cylinder, dump the emptys, drop in loaded shells and replace the cylinder just as fast or faster than pokin' out the emptys one at a time and reloading through the gate.

The R&D cylinder's ratchet is also identical to the persussion variety so it really is a "Drop-in" affair. The Kirst cylinder "star" is much smaller than the percussion cylinder's to clear the loading channel. That means the surface area available for the hand to engage the ratchet or "star" is pretty small. I mangled the tip of the hand pretty quick doing some "quick-draw" practice with the Kirst. I replaced the hand with a stainless steel internal parts kit from Cabela's.

The Kirst works fine for most folks; stay away from "fast-draw" usage and you should be fine...

Cincinnati Slim

[Purvis1]

Thanks for all your help, folks.  I can't believe I'm still on the fence over this.  It seems like there's plenty of things to tip the scales either way.  I reckon I'd be reasonably happy with either one.  What attracted me most to the Kirst was that the hand directly engaged the cyllinder.  Without the r&d to examine, the notion of it's backplate actin as a sort of middle-man made me warey.  Of coarse, I've no technical knowledge to backup this worry.  So, what the heck do I know, right?  I'm usually pretty decisive about makin a choice, but today I think I'm goin to let fate decide.  I'l be takin my lucky quarter out to the garden and have a flip for it.  Thanks again for the help.  You guys sure are nice around here.
-Jon Purvis

[Flint]

Trust me, there is absolutely no slop or free play in the fit of an R&D backplate.  I have both, and I far prefer the R&D.  The Kirst is OK in the 36 Navy Remington, but the irregular spacing in the rachet to make the five plus safety posisition in the Kirst 45 cylinder just does not run smoothly in my guns,.

[Flinch Morningwood]

I have the R&D Conversions for my Pietta 1858s...and I couldn't be more happy with them. 

They are easy to load and unload and require no modifications to the frame.  I also looked at the Kirst in term of the loading gate, etc but ended up going with the drop ins because I assumed that's what a poor cowboy would have done...the cheapest best fix.

BTW - The trick on these, when firing, is to have the cylinder pin WELL lubed!

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Trust me, there is absolutely no slop or free play in the fit of an R&D backplate.  I have both, and I far prefer the R&D.

Flint is right about the backing plate. It's securely held with an alignment pin and isn't going to allow any slop. I put a Kirst in one so I could have a gated conversion for times when a stage called for a round being loaded on the clock. That is so seldom that I just shoot my R&D's in both my 45's and keep the gated .38 on hand in case. Of the tow, I really like dropping the cylinder out with the R&D. Cleaning is easier, too, as the Kirst requires removing the loading lever screw to get the cylinder pin out enough to take the cylinder out. Also, the R&D fit in two of mine with no problem. One other needed to have the frame relieved slightly so the cylinder didn't hit. The kirst needs a little more fitting to work the way it should.

When you need to load a whole cylinder, have an extra R&D on hand to switch out. You don't even need to buy the whole assembly, just the cylinder with no backing plate as you can use the same one on both. I have a few R&D cylinders and all the cylinders and backing plates are interchangable. I don't even worry about which one goes in which gun since they all work the same.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Ok guys,,let me ask,,,

If I get the R and D,,that bad boy will drop right in ?

Taylors said,,,if not,,,they will time it or whatever for free,,,,CAN you beat that service ?

But, I was hoping it would drop right in ? what are the odds it would,,and take off rolling fine ?

And,,for my Rem '58 ,,I can get a .44colt or .45LC either ? Just curious...

Thanks gents,

Marshal Deadwood

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

99 % chance it'll drop in and rock and roll.

Depends if you reload or not.
The 44 Colt is not the same as the 44 Colt in the O.T. 44 Colt in the O.T. is the ,429 Dia Bullet inside lubed.
You would have to line the bbl to shoot .429 bullets in it.

The R & D is for the 44 Rem/Colt with the  44 Colt brass and the .451 Dia Heeled Bullet outside lubed, I shoot that cartridge and wouldn't have it any other way. It is more historically correct than the 45LC if that means anyhting to your time period. 45LC was after 1873 44 Rem/Colt 44 C.F. was 1871.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Got ya on the bullet difference Halfway Creek,,,,

so, there is ONE R and D cylinder for the '58 ? Just one calibre ?,,,,and,,one can shoot the .44Rem/Colt or the .45LC ,,either,,with that same R and D cylinder?

Or, do they make two and you specify which you perfer to shoot the round you choose ?

Sorry for the questions guys, this is just a tad confusing to me.

Marshal Deadwood

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Two.
R & D makes a 45lc Conversion and a 44 Colt/Rem conversion cylinder.
Neither will shoot the other.
The 44's in the 45LC will split the cases due to the SAAMI Specs(Chamber Dimensions) not being right for the 44. and the 45LC will not chamber in the 44 Colt/Rem.

However, you could buy both 45LC and 44 Colt and shoot two calibers out of the same gun if you so chose.

[Seamus]

Marshall,

I have 3 R&D drop ins, 2 1858 Pietta Remi's & one Colt Dragoon.  All dropped in & shot great as is with no problem.  Most problem I have ever heard of from them in that regard is sometimes minor fitting is needed & since Taylors or R&D will do it for you at no cost there is not much risk, 'cept maybe being away from your beloved pistoal for a bit while its shipped back & forth. 

Seamus

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Most problem I have ever heard of from them in that regard is sometimes minor fitting is needed & since Taylors or R&D will do it for you at no cost there is not much risk, 'cept maybe being away from your beloved pistoal for a bit while its shipped back & forth. 

Buy it from them and have the cylinder fitted before they ship it.

[65bsaA65]

Marshall Will, will the backing plate from an R&D .45 Colt  Remmie con. cylinder work on one of the R&D .44 Colt cylinders?  I have an R&D .45 cylinder in my '58 Uberti; have fallen in love with Remmies.  Have been itching to buy another; if I could just buy the .44 cylinder w/o the backing plate, I could afford it both now.  I assume the overall dimensions have to be the same since both calibers are for the same revolver, but don't know if the internal configuration is the same.
By the way, I have a R&D con. cylinder for a Pietta Navy '51.  The cylinder drops right into an ancient (according to the dating system in BBofBP it was made in l959 and has been fired 1000's of times) ASP, indexes properly and locks up  It's a few 1,000's too long to work though, not enough cylinder to barrel clearance.  I'm not going to start filing on it; it works just fine in the Pietta.  It's just an interesting peice of trivia. 

[Cincy Slim]

Buy it from them and have the cylinder fitted before they ship it.

That's a good notion ! I ordered a Pietta 1860 Army from Taylor's and got the R&D cylinder at the same time. They test fitted, checked the timing and lock-up and everything worked perfectly right out of the box ! Taylor's is a good outfit...

Cincinnati Slim

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Marshall Will, will the backing plate from an R&D .45 Colt  Remmie con. cylinder work on one of the R&D .44 Colt cylinders?

I don't see why not. I have 38's and 45's and they take the same backing plates. In fact, I mix them up with no problems at all. Call R&D and you can order the cylinder only. As I recall it's half or less the price of the complete assembly. 608-289-3241 in case you need it.

[Frenchie]

Okay, now I'm confused. "So what else is new?", I hear you all say. Shuddup. 

I have a Cimarron/Uberti Richards-Mason 1860 Army Colt conversion in .44 Colt, and a Pietta Remington NMA with the R&D cylinder in .45 Colt. Do they both have .451 bores? There's lots of "meat" around the charge holes (chambers) of the R-M cylinder, can I bore them out to .45 Colt size? I'd rather have both of them in .44 Colt for historical correctness, but I'll settle for both in .45 Colt if it means simplifying ammo supplies and reloading. So what's the deal?

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Original Colt  and Remington  Conversion were .451 Dia Grooves and Both used the 44 Rem/Colt C.F.This Cartridge used 44 colt brass(or the equivalent) and a heeled bullet that is outside lubed and is .451 Dia.

Here's the drill. 44 Colt RM uses the .429 Dia inside lubed bullet, I suspect that your RM is set up for this cartridge IF you can buy factory loads.

Unless you are using some sort of hollow based bullets and the gun was a Percussion gun first, then converted, then it has .451 Dia grooves.

If sold as a "conversion" it uses the 44 Colt with the .429 Dia Bullet.

44 Rem/Colt C.F. uses 44 Colt Brass and a heeled bullet that is .451 Dia and weighs 248 Grn.

The Remy can shoot 45LC OR 44 Rem/Colt C.F. but you would have to buy two different cylinders to do it. 45LC and 44 Rem/Colt C.F. (Sold as 44 Colt that uses the heeled bullets)

The Colt Can't.

If you bore the chambers  to 45LC then you have to bore out the bbl and re-rifle to .451 Dia Grooves. and there may not be enough metal to do that and probably too costly. Y

You can buy a Colt Clone BP and a conversion cylinder in either 45LC or 44 Rem?Colt C.F.

Clear as mud right? Hope this helps ya out there Frenchie.

[Frenchie]

Charley, much appreciated, it does help because it makes me realize I might not have been so smart fooling around with these danged cartridge guns after all    I think I might just pick one of them to keep and dump the rest on someone who won't get a headache thinking about what will fit where in which guns...