Bond Derringers

[LinMcLean]

Howdy,

I am new to all cas and have just heard about NCOWS.  I already know my revolvers are not legal since they are brass frame Remington New Army C&B.  sigh.

Can any one tell me if the Bond Cowboy Derringer is authentic?

If not are there any larger bore derringers that are?
Thanks,

Lin McLean

[RRio]

The Bond Derringer is definitely not authentic. Whether or not it is legal for NCOWS, I 'm not really sure. And unfortunately, there is nobody making a authentic reproduction of the 1866 Remington derringer at this time. 

[Deadeye Don]

LinMclean,   Welcome to CAS.  With regards to your specific question regarding the Bond Derringer.  I checked the Tally book (the NCOWS rules) and no specific mention is made of the Bond Derringer.  However:

7-2. No modern (post 1899) firearms will be allowed unless they are authentic reproductions of traditional firearms or
very markedly resemble traditional firearms. Traditional firearms are defined as those manufactured and/or
commonly used during the 1865-1899 time period. Center-fire calibers may substitute for original rim-fire
calibers in reproduction firearms. Reproduction firearms chambered in calibers not utilized in original models
shall be allowed as long as such calibers are original to the period or are otherwise approved by the National
Congress of Old West Shootists.

I agree the Bond is really not a reproduction of anything historically produced.  Therefore, I would assume that it would not be allowed. 


There is mention made of derringers being used in side matches.

".22 caliber hand guns for main stages are to be pocket pistol/derringers only. .22 revolvers and rifles are restricted
in use for specialty shoots only"

I think the basic authenticity rule would apply in this case and the Bond Derringer would not be allowed.  Most of the really knowledgable people are at the National shoot this week so I would suggest you pose your question again next week to make sure.  Safe shooting.  Deadeye.

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[St. George]

The only 'larger' bore derringers that come close are the old .38 Special ones imported from Germany, many years ago.

They do pop up from time to time - but you have to be on the lookout for them since they're still popular due to their size.

Quality of construction varied - with some being merely adequate - so look for all-steel construction.

During the time frame 'the' large bore single-shot was the Hammond 'Bulldog' - firing a .44 Rimfire from a closed breech.

There were a myriad of pocket revolvers in calibers ranging from .32 - .450 Webley, and those have been addressed both here, and on the 'Historical Society' forum.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Black River Smith]

As St. George has shown, there are numerous pocket pistols that qualify for NCOWS.  There are pocket percussions that qualify also if you really like the C&B shooting.

Don't just limit yourself to the two shot derringer.

Welcome and have fun putting together your firearms.

[Buffalow Red]

do i read this right a 1858 rem pittia 44 c&b is not legal in brass frame i was going to order one topday

[LinMcLean]

Brass framed Remingtons are not authentic not sure about legal but it doesn't seem like they would be given NCOWS rules.  I love the look of my brass frames, just got done polishing them as well as my '66.

The research I have done says that Remington never made brass framed New Armies.  The south did make some brass frame revolvers but never a Remington copy. 

To quote one source an Arms Museum curator:

"There were a number (about 1,500 or so) of copies of the Whitney Navy revolver made by Spiller & Burr in Atlanta and later at the Macon, Georgia, Armory. These are somewhat similar to the Remingtons, in that they have a topstrap and the barrel is threaded into the front of the frame instead of being attached by the wedge through the cylinder arbor (pin) as on the Colt. People sometimes mistake the Whitneys for Remingtons, so some of your experts may try that escape hatch. The modern "brass frame Remington" reproductions are probably a result of marketing and economics.”  and good asthetics I must add

[River City John]

do i read this right a 1858 rem pittia 44 c&b is not legal in brass frame i was going to order one topday

 
Buffalow Red,
I would say no, that it is not a legal gun, as it does not represent any Remington that was actually manufactured.

But don't pin your hopes, nor the worth of NCOWS, on one firearm. By all means join and enjoy the benefits of membership. As a member, you could petition the Authenticity Committee to have it approved, but that would require documentation of its existence and use, which would be impossible.

Brass framed revolvers to consider as authentic and would satisfy your love of that look would be either the Spiller & Burr clone or the Griswald & Gunnison copy. Both in .36 cal.(no brass framed .44 cal produced to my knowledge back then.) The use of brass was a cost/labor saving expedient by the Confederacy because they lacked resources, not because brass was a superior metallurgic choice.
For pocket pistol consider the little Remington clone available in .31 calibre, as it too had a brass frame. The one offered in all steel is not period correct.
And of course, either the Henry or the 1866 Winchester would compliment that look.

You are actually in an enviable position since you are asking questions first BEFORE buying. Good for you! That is the correct way to approach NCOWS.
But go slow, as your tastes will change.
One thing to consider, too, is that if you have a basic idea of a story about who the person would be that would have ended up with those kind of brass-framed sidearms, then it will save you money and time when buying all the other little accessories you'll eventually want to get.

Sorry this was not answered right away, but I'm glad you were patient enough to inquire in both Forums.
I look forward to your involvement in NCOWS and there will be many others who will lend a helping hand.

RCJ

[FRANK JAMES]

COBRA  http://www.cobrapistols.com/media/article_dukederringer.htm  makes a near replica of the 1866 Remington Double
Derringer. Some Pard's find the the quality less desirable...but is the only 'cartidge' derringer legal for sale in the Republik of
Kalifornia.
Now the American Derringer http://www.amderringer.com/  has their Model 1 that is a near replica of the 1866 Remington
Double Derringer. (But not legal in Kalifornia...be sure to check your own states/cities codes & regs.).