Question for the Soot Lords... Powder ID/Info

[Marshal Tac]

This last weekend, I was given a pound of powder from a pard who owns a gun store. This powder had been on the shelf for a while, and not sold, so he gave it to me to clear the space for things that do sell, and I have never heard of it before. It's a BP "replacement" (substitute) called "Black Canyon Powder", and comes in a white plastic can, simular to that of APP. The packaging does not have an "F" Grade, and simply states that it is "sulfur free" and that it should be loaded in muzzle loaders or BP cartidges as a direct, volume to volume replacement. In the fine print it states that it is approximately 25% less powerful than "standard black powder".

The powder it's self is large in granulation and deep black in color.

I have never heard of this before, and am seeking information (good or bad) about this product, if anyone has experience with it.

I only have the one can of it and do not plan on looking for more of it; I just am curious about it. I plan on test firing some of it in my Remmie '58's and possibly loading some in my shotgun shells, dependant on how it performes.

Any info would be appreciated.

[Fox Creek Kid]

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIIF1.html

[Dick Dastardly]

It's a sugar base powder that turns into one chunk eventually.  When you put that chunk on the back lawn and pour a powder train and light it, it blows a respectable hole in the lawn.

If you shoot the stuff, clean promptly.  It's very corrosive and hygroscopic.  The stuff loves moisture and corrodes anything moist quick as you kin look.

I don't think it's being sold anymore.  You paid a fair price for it.

DD-DLoS

[Marshal Tac]

Thanks Fox... I found the same thing during my internet search.


DD, Pard you kill me!    Thats the type of info I was looking for! I have no need to blast holes in the back yard, and I have no desire to corrode my guns.... I agree about the price being fair. I understand this company stopped making this powder about 4-5 years ago for these reasons....

I will stick with my Shutzen or my 777. Thanks.

[Marshal Tac]

P.S. If anyone has a stump they need removed, let me know.... I might just have a one pound can of "solved that problem" available. 

[Delmonico]

Dick, isn't it just saltpeter and sugar?  Grandpa used to is that during WWII when he couldn't get real blasting powder to blow cotton wood chunks into pieces that would fit into the heating stove.  Have heard some stories about how much trouble it was compared to the real stuff and a story about the damage to the barn and fence.

BTW Abby Hoffman recomended using a double boiler and melting it together, looks like peanut brittle with out the peanuts.  I do know a piece the size of a soda cracker and about a 1/4 thick will completley cover the teachers parking lot at my High School with smoke.    No not me, I just watched for witnesses.

[Sod Buster]

BTW Abby Hoffman recomended using a double boiler and melting it together, looks like peanut brittle with out the peanuts.  I do know a piece the size of a soda cracker and about a 1/4 thick will completley cover the teachers parking lot at my High School with smoke.    No not me, I just watched for witnesses.

Yeah, sure.....

[Texas John Critter]

If I was you I would just burn it up in the scattergun.  Thats what I do with Pyrodex whenever I get a can for a prize or as a "gift". 

[hellgate]

Hey, what's all this badmouthing my old friend Blackie Canyon? It was the first BP sub I used (not counting Pyro) in CAS. I agree with much of what has been said but here's a few insights:

The darker it gets, the more loss of strength. It starts out light grey like kitty litter, then goes a shade of brown, then a shade of black and then into a solid cake of adhered fine gravel. In the current state it will be OK for the shotgun. Maybe you can use it in the Remington but you'll need to fill the chamber and mash the ball down. In the shotgun I would load about 90grs volume and mash it down with a dowel or heavy wad pressure then seat your wads. It likes to be compressed heavily.

I used to use it in the .357mag for my Rossi. I got excellent accuracy but the reloading was time consuming. I would fill a case 3/4 full, mash it down with a dowel into a solid pellet of "dirt", then fill the case to the brim and seat a 158gr bullet on top to an OAL of 1.55". They would shoot into 1.5"@50yds. Not too bad. It is corrosive to the BRASS rather than to the rifle. At least I never saw any rust but I clean soon after a match. Cleanup is with water + a soap or detergent. I liked it. APP was the same to me only less moisture grabbing. You can use hardcast smokeless lubed bullets in cartridges. If it still flows it will shoot but with less OOMPH. The last pound I used I got for $5 or less and shot it up in  the shotgun with the above load. It didn't feel like 90grs of BP by any means. They were not full powered loads but enough for "swingers".

The main problem was with its drawing moisture from the air and subsequent weakening. When light grey it was plenty powerful but needed packing into a solid. I did not shoot it in the C&Bs as good old BP shined just fine. I liked the relative non corrosiveness in the rifle cartridge and ability to use standard lubes.

[Delmonico]

Oh and if you decide to use it on stumps, remember what Grandpa taught me, "use more fuse than you think you need."

[Goatlips]

Yup, I bought three pounds a few years back because the price was right.  The price was wrong, hardly cleared the barrel in my pistols; but I didn't pack it down like Hellgate said.  Knowing me, I'll keep it around until it's the last thing I have left to load with or my widder hauls it out to the curb. 

Goatlips

[Marshal Tac]

Thanks for the info Hellgate. I doubt that I will ever use it in my cartridges, just based on the fact that I seriously doubt that it will meter through my Dillion powder measure on my 650 and I do not have a single stage press.

If I decide to load it in the shotgun it will be for "fun" and not for matches, as I have a pet load with my Shutzen that I really like, and I don't want to take any chances "on the clock". (Shooting a shotgun target twice because it didn't go down the first time frustrates me to no end)

I got a pard with an in-line muzzle stuffer that I might pass it onto if I can't find a stump to clear with it!  (In my neck of the woods, stumps are hard to find but cactus are plentiful!)

[Montana Slim]

The stuff should be gray-colored, and in small chunks. I had some that had turned black and large clumps....would barely light-off......I dumped it on a large cookie sheet and baked in my kitchen electric-oven on warm-temp for about 10 minutes, then let it cool. The powder worked great after that & used in my SXS.

Slim

[hellgate]

I used to run it through my Redding powder measure but it drew moisture and rusted the rotating cylinder unless thoroughly cleaned. I would not dare put it through an automated loader without disassembly afterward to clean out all the dust. Not worth it. Use a scoop (heaping) and shoot it up in the shotgun for swingers rather than fallers.

[Goatlips]

The stuff should be gray-colored, and in small chunks. I had some that had turned black and large clumps....would barely light-off......I dumped it on a large cookie sheet and baked in my kitchen electric-oven on warm-temp for about 10 minutes, then let it cool. The powder worked great after that & used in my SXS.

Slim

Good idea Slim, I'll try leaving it out in the sun on a cookie sheet.  Only got one oven.

Goatlips

[GA Joe Tyke]

BTW Abby Hoffman recomended using a double boiler and melting it together, looks like peanut brittle with out the peanuts.  I do know a piece the size of a soda cracker and about a 1/4 thick will completley cover the teachers parking lot at my High School with smoke.    No not me, I just watched for witnesses.

Don't do this over a coleman stove, or in the kitchen.  Once the fire starts, it will not go out!!!...

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Good idea Slim, I'll try leaving it out in the sun on a cookie sheet.  Only got one oven.

Goatlips

Also, I'll bet that its hygroscopic qualities will cause it to soak up as much humidity from the outside air as the sun will dry it on that cookie sheet.  'Course, iffn ya live in the Arizona desert (or any other extremely dry spot) it might jes werk!   

[rickk]

Isn't the 4th of July just around the corner ?