2 1/2" shotshells

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Now that I now have an old underlever Husqvarna shotgun, I had to get serious about short shells.

I had plenty of shells of all sorts, and both a Lyman roll crimp head for a drillpress and an original antique roll crimp tool.  I even have a stash of Federal paper shells.

The problem was to get the procedure for cutting the cases to 2.5" as efficient as possible.  A pipe cutter doesn't do it  (I should say doesn't cut it!).  I next spotted the shell sizer body from a MEC Junior press.  It is steel, fits the case diameter, and if you shove a low brass case case in from the wrong end 'til it stops at the lip of the brass base, and a bit of work with a box cutter and you have a case just a bit shorter than 2.5".

OKAY!  Now how to turn that idea into the production model?

A quick trip to the hardware store found me looking at bits of conduit and plumbing.  Nothing showed promise 'til I spotted a sample of white PVC pipe.  Outside dia. was 1.05 or so and the middle was .82, a slip fit for a 12 ga. shell.  The guy spotted me some scraps from his bin, and I was off home at the gallop.

Mitre box & saw located.  A "C" clamp for a stop.  a bit of measuring.  Now I have a hard plastic sleeve, just stick in a case & cut; - almost as fast as that.

[hellgate]

http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/products.asp?dept=138

This link puts you into the Ballistics Products case trimmer (and spare blades). Your rig will probably do as well but you can see what $29 + exhorbitant S&H will get you.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

So far, if you consider that the tools I used were already in my inventory, my investment was;

NOTHING!

If I had to pay for a foot of PVC pipe, a few cents more. As it is I have a spare piece of pipe, about 4" long.

The sleeve is large enough that the case can spin when cutting.  I dug out an old mouse pad, which provided just enough friction to allow an efficient cut .

For the dimensionally curious; the sleeve is about 2.43" in length.  The length of the amputated case is not critical, within reason. The length of the chamber determines the maximum, while the minimum depends on the height of the load column.  In my case I will use Magtech brass for BP and these shortened plastic cases for smokeless practise shells.  I just put together the following load;

Federal low brass plastic cases, cut to 2.5"
WW 209 primers
16 grains of GREENDOT, to keep pressures on the low side  I used a LEE 1.9cc dipper, heaped up a bit, and weighed.
Orange WW low cost wads for standard clay shooting
1 1/16 oz #8 inserted with a LEE adjustable shot dipper.
Overshot wad punched from a beer case with a 3/4" punch
This left about .4" to create the roll crimp

NO WARANTEE EXPRESS OR IMPLIED for this data.  Work up your own load from the books, having full knowledge of the gun you are loading for!

I have tried other cases.  KENT seems to have a much lower basewad, so I think they will end up being my hunting cases.  Cheap winchester loads with the aluminum base were too soft, and the walls buckled when I applied pressure to form the roll with my drillpress.  I was able to load them with the antique rollcrimper, by hand.  I don't think I'll use them anymore  I havn't tried AAsi.  In my experience, the case walls of PREMIER STS, and NITRO 27 thicken up too close to the top preventing an effective roll crimp.  Federal GOLD MEDAL, Remington RXP, and Remington GUN CLUB shells look very promising.

Good Shooting, and be careful out there.

Revised; 18 Jun 07

[rickk]

I hold mine with a Mec supersizer and trim them with a forsner bit in a drill press. A 3 inch shell will trim up better than a 2 3/4 sheel, as the trim is a little ragged when trimming thru the old star crimp.  You can size and trim a couple shells a minute easily this way.

The supersizer is handy after you do the roll crimp as well. Size the crimped end after crimping to remove any mushrooming of the nose.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'll have to look up a supersizer.  Dick Dastardly says he uses one to hold the shell while under the rollhead in his drillpress. I used a pair of pliers, but it leaves a few scratches. 

I run my shells through my MEC GRABBER for sizing, priming, dropping powder and shot. I remove the shells for overshot card and roll crimp, and then back to the Grabber for the final sizing station.

[Dick Dastardly]

I have a couple of band saws in my wood working shed.  The little 14" rig works great for shortening shot shells.  Set the guide to the length ya want and push 'em thru.  Works on all gauges.

I have a BP case trimmer, but it makes my hands ache after a box or two.  The band saw doesn't make my hands ache.

I found a bench top drill press at Harbor Freight for Forty bux and I do my roll crimps with that.  BP has the roll crimp tool, but it's available here for less. . .

http://precisionreloading.com/Rollcrimpers.htm

I think this is where BP gets 'em.

DD-DLoS

[hellgate]

I have found that the thicker walled cases roll crimp better. Whenever I have straightened out the fold crimped case mouths they are too thin to hold a decent roll so cutting them back gets to thicker, easier worked plastic.

At one time I cooked up some "gamer" BP loads and ended up with about 2" OAL roll crimped cases that actually fed & shucked easier than the full length cases. I think the wad column was pretty much a plastic gas seal and a card wad; everything else was powder or shot. They worked fine.

[TAkaho kid]

Charles,

you could get one of those neat trimmers from BPI. However for real speed I use a bandsaw with a simple wood jig and fixture to hold the shell. It works slick as cat poo on the kitchen floor. I then use  BPI spin doctor to bell the mouth.

[rickk]

Dick Dastardly was the one that suggested to me to use the MEC supersizer, and I must admit that my fingers feel considerably safer using it rather than holding the shells in my hand.   

By the way, they show up on ebay quite a bit. They seem to be in demand, so you probably won't get a super deal on one, but you may save a few bucks

[Dick Dastardly]

Yup Rickk,

I'd watch for one with extra collets.  Sometimes the unit was used for several gauges, like mine is, and it will be sold as a set.

Also, on that roll crimp link above, scroll down to find one at about 1/2 price.  I suspect it's made of some kind of polycarbonate, but it ought to work as well as an all steel one.

That band saw trick works great, but using a jig, as mentioned above, is simple and will save a few fingers.

I've found that a drill press works a LOT better than a hand held drill for spinning on a roll crimp.

The nice thing about a roll crimp is that it is very consistent pressure wise.  Also, the length of the hull can be adjusted to the payload without having to adjust the load/wad column height.  Also, it's easy to write a few items on the overshot card to make your hand loads easy to identify.

DD-DLoS

[hellgate]

When roll crimping I found that if I held the shell head down on a piece of sandpaper  tacked to a board the hull was easier to keep from spinning. I don't have anything to grip the case when using the drill press so the extra traction helps.

[rickk]

Dick, when I was shopping on ebay, I looked for a deal for a month before I finally gave up and ordered a new one from Midway.

An hour later an almost new one appeared on ebay with a complete collet set and sold for about $50... wouldn't ya know it.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Years ago I stumbled into a Sinclair hull cutter. It's really slick. You slide the hull onto a dowel that is adjustable for length. It has a guillotine like handle that takes razor blades. You lower the handle and spin the hull by hand a few times and WALLAAA!! Here's the patent #2,869,413, but there are no photos. I think I paid $15.00 for it.

[w44wcf]

Fox Creek Kid,

Here's a link to the drawing.  A pretty neat gadget!
http://www.google.com/patents?id=PohFAAAAEBAJ&printsec=drawing&zoom=4&dq=2,869,413

w44wcf

[Fox Creek Kid]

That's it!!!! Thanks!!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Looks like a cool tool!  Very handy.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The proof is in the pudding.  I shot 22/25 at trap yesterday, even with a mix of trial ammo.  The old Husqvarna still talks!

[Texas John Critter]

Good on ya Sir!  Always love to see the ole girls bark again.

[rickk]

I just broke down and ordered a case trimmer http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/prodinfo.asp?number=TRIM and a "spin doctor" http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/prodinfo.asp?number=SPINDOC .

I'll post feedback when I get them and try them.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Rickk;  That "spin doctor" looks worth copying.

I found some Federal Slug load cases in the burn barrel at the range.  I've loaded up a couple.  They crimp really neatly.  Still the best by far are Federal paper cases!

TJC;  Thanks.  Getting the old ones back in action is my current passion.  Patterning old Husqabella, showed she was throwing very tight patterns, but a bit wide from the centreline of the bores. As I recall the rule for regulating a double;

To move the shot away from centre;-  Increase the weight of the shot, and/or speed up the mv.

To bring the shot back to centre; Lighten the shot load, and/or drop the mv.

My next load will have the shot payload dropped to 7/8 oz. Hopefully that will bring to impact closer to centre.