Buffalo Hunter's Camp Lighting, Redux

[Will Ketchum]

Perhaps they didn't require as much light as we do.  They didn't have the light pollution we experience today and I would guess that their night vision was much better than most of ours.  I recall my time in S.E. Asia where we worked mostly at night for an extended period it was remarkable how good our night vision became.  No, we didn't have starlight scopes.  heck I never heard of them until I got home.

Maybe, since they had never really experienced much night time lighting they didn't know what they were missing.

Will Ketchum

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Perhaps they didn't require as much light as we do.  They didn't have the light pollution we experience today and I would guess that their night vision was much better than most of ours.  I recall my time in S.E. Asia where we worked mostly at night for an extended period it was remarkable how good our night vision became.  No, we didn't have starlight scopes.  heck I never heard of them until I got home.

Maybe, since they had never really experienced much night time lighting they didn't know what they were missing.

Will Ketchum

Yep!  I found the same thing to be true over in the big sandbox.  After the shootin' was over, I read 4 books by the light of the stars and the moon!  (Couldn't do it without the moonlight, 'tho.  )  The BIG GUY sure did a great job makin' the human body systems work like they can ... most of us don't get to find out just how well our bodies will perform under certain circumstances.  Like 50 miles away from the nearest city lights (Baghdad)(sp?) where you can actually SEE the amazing amount of stars in the Milky Way - with no other light to ruin yer night vision!

[Irish Dave]

I've also heard it said that we gain 1/3 of our night vision in 3 minutes, the second 1/3 in 30 minutes and the final 1/3 in 3 hours.

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

OCB - Regarding 'bullets' vs. cartridges and the camp rustler's role: I wondered that too, did he take lead bullets to the guys hunting, or ready-made cartridges? Though I can't document at this point how this is to be interpereted I'd have to take an edjumacated guess that the intent of the term meant ready-made cartridges. The implication is that if there was more than one hunter the camp rustler would have to take the right ammo to the right guy as according to W. Skelton Glenn each hunter made his own ammo. I doubt he took lead bullets for the hunters to re-load while they hunted, and even then would have to take each hunter's specific bullets if he did deliver just lead bullets.

Historic conjecture: The more I read about the subject of the hunt the more I appreciate the stealth employed by the hunters approaching the herd in the early morning to commence the day's hunt. If a hunter approached a herd and spooked it to run off before getting in that all important first shot to drop the 'leader' it would cause frustrating delays to the day. In other words, if during his attempted approach he was espied by the one of the several extremely watchful buffalo herd sentinals, then the herd would take off and the hunt would be delayed as the hunter angrily followed to try it all over again - not good for business. Considering that a hunter had to sneak up on a herd real careful-like and take that golden 1st shot into the leader, after sometimes crawling to a good position for some distance on his belly, I should think that taking too many things with him would be inefficient for the stealth required. As it was, a hunter was weighted down with at least one cartridge belt, often times two, of over 40 rounds plus extra ammo each and was lugging two 12-14+ pound heavy barreled hunting rifles (to alternate with when one got too hot to shoot by switching to the cooled one), plus his sticks & wiping rod, and likely a canteen. I don't know if taking reloading stuff with him would be feasible/practical and would he even have time to reload cartridges when shooting? A 'stand' was only successful when each successive leader buffalo was shot, the rest would wait to see what the next leader would do thus creating a group milling situation vs a stampede. So those buffalos that were smart enough to take over the herd and commence the group running away from danger were the next ones to get whacked in succession. So once a 'stand' situation was created I wonder how much time the shooter could spend not shooting - would even be hard to take a pee if I'm reading the primary documentation right and perhaps all the time he could spare was to switch rifles, swab a bore quickly, and maybe get in a drink of water. Once a hunter got his 'stand' by whacking the leaders successively he could and did shoot all day at times from what I've read in some primary sources so far.

So I'm not too sure how much spare time the hunter had to do much else but shoot. However, once the shooters got their 'stands', the camp rustler could follow the noise of the guns and ride right up to the hunter and drop off the requisite support items: cartridges, chow, water, etc with no fear of causing a stampede. The condition was created by the hunter of contantly confusing the buffalo herd which now had no sentinals and could not stampede by virtue of their leaders being constantly whacked just as each one made the command decision to get the heck outa there. Quite ingenious on the part of the hunters in using this method, better than chasing the big, nasty, dirty buggers!

Though my conjecture above doesn't answer your question it makes some sense until I can verify that my suspicions are true or not. Until then, I cannot say if the term 'bullet' as used by W. Skelton Glenn in relation to the camp rustler meant cartridges or just the lead part of a cartridge. I'd say he meant 'cartridge' but can't prove it yet. Good question mon ami.

YMH&OS,

Brass

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

All - note: the thread on OCB's buffalo hunters' cartridge inquiry is moved to a new thread.

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

W. Ketchum, S. H. Baily & Irish Dave;

I can't speak to the topic of these fellers having better night vision as I've read nothing about it so far. However, such a concept would likely not likely be something they'd even notice much less write about. Interesting idear, though. One thing is for certain regarding buffalo hunters is that many of them did have some disposable daylight hours and the camp rustler was a pivotal person as he did the work-a-day chores which allowed the hunters & skinners to be away all day and come home to a relatively orderly camp situation. Also, the camp rustler managed the skinned hides regarding storage, bundling & etc - truly a very important person in the operation. I can't speak to hygiene standards of such fellows as camp rustlers regarding how the camp was administered but at least there was food available before the hunt, delivered during the hunt, and there to eat after the day was done and the hunters and skinners came back to base. Talk about a great impression - methinks being a camp rustler would be one of the best!

YMH&OS,

Brass

[Books OToole]

W. Ketchum, S. H. Baily & Irish Dave;

. Talk about a great impression - methinks being a camp rustler would be one of the best!

YMH&OS,

Brass

Hmmmmm....I think I know what my next impression will be.

I have everything I need for a grundgy character.(All but the pants and they are on the way.) 
I have been thinking that he would be an unsuccessful prospector, but I like the Idea of a camp rustler.
I can cook, run bullets (either interpretation) and with my trusty '66, protect the camp.

Maybe I'll call him Timmons.

Books

[James Hunt]

Books: You got a job in our camp anytime!!!!

Brass: somewhere in those books is a brief story of either a hunter or skinner who cut himself - I believe on the lip, got infected, and nearly died with the others caring for him. You are right - not a good environment to be without antibiotics.

[Will Ketchum]

Hmmmmm....I think I know what my next impression will be.

I have everything I need for a grundgy character.

Maybe I'll call him Timmons.

Books

Mike, looking grungy isn't going to cut it with James and Monterrey Jack.  They are hard core.  Remember how they wouldn't use any light because they couldn't find any reference to it.  Well one thing you will find plenty of reference to and that is the stench of the buffalo hunters and skinners.  I imagine that the same would apply to their camp rustler.  You'll have to go down to the local packing plant and roll in their gut pile for a bit.  Then let your outfit take on that certain ambiance.

Will Ketchum

[Books OToole]

I once saved table scraps for a month so I could throw them around a camp.  This was for a army deserters camp for a candle light tour.  I wanted the smell and the flys.

That was one of the most fun one of those I've done.  I got to plot a murder and I inadvertantly made Cholera funny.

Books

[Grizzle Bear]

Books;

Plotting a murder is common enough, but please tell us all how you found humor in the cholera!



Grizzle Bear

[Delmonico]

Books;

Plotting a murder is common enough, but please tell us all how you found humor in the cholera!



Grizzle Bear

It wasn't him that had it.

[Books OToole]

I was portraying a vile, evil, murdering, low-life named Ezekiel Turpin.  My partner, also an army deserter, was Fred Blutarski (Ken Wilk).

Well I had a Fagan type orphan (Jacob Cigich) that I was corrupting.  The kid was feverish and I was concerned.  I thought is best that he lay on Fred's bedroll as is was farther from the fire.  I also thought whiskey might be helpful but I made sure he drank it out of Fred's cup. etc.  The audience was amused that I was offering all this assistance with Fred's gear.  It wasn't my intent to do so but it happened.

The most fun was plotting the murder of the artist (Jeff Bender) using the Fagan as my agent to actually do the shooting.

Ahhh, the good old days.

Books

[Dutch Limbach]

Have you ever heard of Simeon Ecuyer, Books?

[Books OToole]

No, but I just Googled him.

...an early example of biological warfare.  Quite effective.

Most cases of such alleged tactics are just myths*. 

The event we were interpreting was the '49 Gold rush.  The Cholera followed the emmigrants up the trail.  The Regiment of Mounted Rifles were going up the Oregon Trail to a garrison in the NW.  However by the time the regiment arrived, most had deserted to the gold fields.



Books






* The smallpox epidemic that devasted the Blackfoot Indians was unintended.  They had been good trading partners and the traders knew of the outbreak.  They encouraged the Indians to get what they needed and move on quickley, thus minimizing exposure.  It wasn't until they started finding the trail of abandoned tipis and bodies that the traders knew that they had failed in their endeavor to protect their trading partners.

[gw]

James & MJB---This is a little late in the game, but I was perusing The Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters and Skinners last night and came across this:
"i got back to camp and busied myself with cooking supper. Pretty soon the wagons comenced to come in with the hides that had been skinned that evening. They had skinned 51 buffalo and brought in about 500 lbs. of tallow that we used to make fire at nights. When they skinned a nice fat buffalo they cut it open and took the tallow off the entrails. We made our fires of buffalo chips, as there was no wood[and the tallow made the fires hotter]."
    The above quote came from the section written by George W. 'Hoodoo" Brown.  This particular hunt occurred in February 1873. They were on the Arickaree river, about 65 miles northwest of Fort Wallace. The next quote says:
"When our supper was eaten we renewed our fire and went to making cartridges for our guns. I used a 'Big Fifty' caliber Sharp's[sic] rifle."
So it looks like at least some of the early hunters did use 'chips' and enhanced the fire with tallow to " make it burn hotter".  I'd guess that the tallow would also make it burn brighter in addition to "hotter", but he may be referring to making in burn "hotter" for melting lead.
They was no other reference to making campfires or lighting in this section.  As I read further, I'll pay close attention to this point of fires and any lighting. Hope this helps and sorry it took so long.......but I read slow!

[James Hunt]

GW: I just noticed your post of a week ago and thankyou for it. I load in a small room under a 75 watt bulb and complain about the lack of light, I can't imagine loading by the light of a campfire and if tallow provided a brighter light would they not have appreciated it.

However, the idea of fooling with black powder around the campfire is a concept that is hard for me to get my 20th century mind around. But then again these are guy's who didn't let something like Comanches interfere with wandering about in the middle of nowhere for a hunt. I believe the thought of a Comanche would put a damper on my enthusiasm for the outdoors, and loading cartridges while the fire pops and crackles with tallow leaves me with an image of some poor hunter personally lighting up the prairie evening as he tried to beat out the flames of his smoldering clothes.

[gw]

I agree, they were willing to take a few more "chances" than we do today. I've often wondered just how good of a bullet can be cast from this type fire, or if you could even find the sprue opening!!!. 
     Should you and MJB ever decide to "light" your camp in this manner, please give us advance warning so we may remove ourselves to an upwind location!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

James, this is just a theory based on my experience in the Iraqi sandbox - where the only light was either from the stars & moon, or whatever light we soldiers provided - which wasn't much, you understand: light serving to attract attention from hostiles and all.  Anyhoo, when you have a total absence of light, your eyes are capable of MUCH better performance than we're used to, what with headlights, reading lights, etc. messing with your natural night vision.  Therefore, I believe that with your eyes working at their finest ability that the good Lord made them capable of, adding the light from a campfire would work the same as turning on a Halogen work light on your loading gear ... as long as ya don't stare into the campfire, of course!    So, while it may not be OUR choice of lighting it obviously seemed to work for them.

As to BP and a nearby campfire, well ... I wouldn't like that either! I think GW said it best:

I agree, they were willing to take a few more "chances" than we do today. I've often wondered just how good of a bullet can be cast from this type fire, or if you could even find the sprue opening!!! 

I'm with GW about using BP as a fire starter accelerant!       

[James Hunt]

Since the vast majority of rounds fired were paper patch, one is struck with the whole process of cutting patching material getting it on the bullet, dealing with cutting wads, dealing with lube cookies, putting it all together with very primitive reloading equipment and doing it in minimal light. How much field expedient technique would they use? They sure didn't weigh each bullet - or any bullet. Did they sit around camp on day's they weren't hunting and make and patch bullets in advance and in the light of day - I have never read that they did. Did they make lube cookies and of what? Does anyone have a reference of them placing a wad at the base of the bullet. I know what the long range shooters in the east did, but those guy's weren't hunting buffalo. Would they have shoved a wad in over the powder and then stuck their finger in some tallow and shoved it in the cartridge (there is no evidence they carried bees wax or other hardening material with them that I know of). Did they have a compression die - nope. Did they compress the powder by feel? Did they compress powder or just seat the bullet on top. They all have those nifty cartridge belts full of PP bullets, did they ever walk around and have the bullet fall out? Did they even bother with a lube cookie? Or would they have just kept pouring water over and down the barrel. Mayer in The Buffalo Harvest reports they did use "graphited tallow" to lube the barrel with after cleaning it (with cold water, urine, and then hot water). 

Would it not be great to have just one night in a buffalo camp to see how they did it.