Picture, ca 1870-1880

[Hardscrabble Gus]

First off, this is my first post so go easy on me!    I am not a member of NCOWS but have been looking over the site and its rules.  I'm starting fresh, thinking along the lines of a common man, nothing special.  I have a copy (done by a professional, not very well and the thing is turning color) of my wife's ancestor, his brothers and brothers-in-law following a hunt.  The information with it places it as 1866, but judging by the ages the subjects appear to be, we think 1870-1880 much more likely, probably more towards mid 1870's.  Granted, these men aren't cowboys, the picture was probably taken in NW Ohio, NE Indiana or southern Michigan (several of the men did make it to Iowa and maybe Kansas later in life).  If I were to use this picture as a reference, are there any particular items of clothing, accouterments, etc. that would be usable in developing a personna for NCOWS?  This link may give you a larger picture:  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/mistumpjumper/Civil%20War/CivilWar005-2.jpg?t=1178831013

Thanks.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Great photo! Very interesting things in it. 

The three fellars in the center are clearly wearing banned collar shirts. The two without coats aren't wearing suspenders and possibly wearing full button shirts. Some are wearing pants inside and outside the boots. It appear that the second fellar from the right is wearing a double-breasted vest. It appears all the guns are muzzle-loaders, which doesn't help to age the photo.

Do you know if any of them fought in the Civil War?

Slim

[Hardscrabble Gus]

Yes, they are all veterans of the Civil War (Union).  The four on the left are brothers, last name Howald; the other three were married to Howald sisters.  The man with the revolver was a Goforth, the two large men were brothers named Morgan.  My mother-in-law has the original picture although there is/was a clearer copy out there somewhere:  while doing genealogy research in Hillsdale, Michigan, my daughter (who was about 10 at the time) noticed the picture reproduced in a local book and pointed it out to us by saying, "hey, we have that picture at home!"  Makes me wonder how much we've missed in other searches.  We may have my wife's g-g-grandfather's muzzleloader in the photo, but it isn't clear enough to know for sure.

[The Elderly Kid]

Any idea what those things are the 2nd man from left is standing on? The firearms look like c& b period, but of course many people stuck with their c&bs clear to the turn of the century for economy reasons if nothing else. Still, you'd think with a group this large at least one of them would have a cartridge arm if this was the 70s or 80s. Probably just post-CW, like Joss says. That man on the far left almost looks like the classic Russian immigrant with his boots, blouse, billed cap and square-cut beard. Not if his name is Howald, though.

[River City John]

The oddest thing is that there's NOTHING out of the ordinary by today's market. All look like a right well dressed group who could have have gotten their trappings and Plains rifles from the same source. Coats and pants all fit well, nicely hemmed pants legs of those shown outside the boots. without the loosness of fit seen so often in images of the era. These are basically work clothes that look very clean and well kept, without that 'lived-in' look of clothing worn in the field. In fact, everything in the image could be found available from a Vendor today.

I must say, though, that saffron-yellow tint splashed around the perimeter of the body of the print stayed neatly within the oval. Someone tried to make this look aged?

So, build a persona based on any one of these Gents.

[French Jack]

I would suspect that the actual date is somewhere in the 1860's.  The coats worn by the gentlemen on the right, and the cut of the trousers are what one would expect to see in the early 1800's.  Note the cut of the lapels, and the cut of the pants legs.  The shirts worn by the men without coats are very likely what was know as workmen's blouses-- a durable over shirt worn to protect clothing.  Also, placket fronts that had a false front, in which there are actually only about 4 buttons, opening half way,  but the tab on the placket is stiched doown on the front of the shirt almost to the waist.

Also very telling, is that although the men appear to be reasonably prosperous, as judged by condition of clothing, not one has a cartridge firearm.  You would expect that for hunting, at least one would have a more modern firearm if the photo was of a later period.

Just my two cents.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

their trappings and Plains rifles from the same source.

RCJ,

If in fact this photo is from Indiana or Ohio those have stocked rifles are probably light, small caliber rifles built in the area and much lighter then the typical Plains Rifles of the mountain men era.

Half stocked rifles of the type in the picture were very common and were known as Indiana or Ohio rifles usually of 40 caliber or smaller, 32 and 36 being the norm, very slim and lightly stocked. Basically a Pennsylvania/Kentucky style full stock cut down to a half stock rifle, with some stock design modifications.

If Hardscrabble's wife does have the rifle in her possession I would sure like to know what caliber it is....

Bill

[Ol Gabe]

Great pic!
A few more fun things seen in it...the gent at the extreme left is holding a Bunny/Hare in his right hand, the fellow 2nd from the left looks to be standing on end cut chunks of RR ties as the background looks like a sawmill with cut logs seen on the extreme right frame, the 3rd man from the left is holding a bird, Woodcock possibly, in his left hand, the 4th man from the left is holding a Bunny/Hare in his right hand, the 5th from the left a Revolver in his right hand, the 6th from the left is cradling his rifle under his left arm and using the ramrod to seat a ball or clean the barrel and the 7th from the left is using a Patch Knife to cut a new patch for his reload. Lots of details, no doubt others wil add to the visual feast!
Bet regards and welcome to the forum H.G.!
'Ol Gabe

[Hardscrabble Gus]

Bill,

Aanii.  The ml my wife has is stockier rather than trim.  It also has a back-action lock.  I don't have a micrometer, but it measures close to .40 caliber at the muzzle.  My wife's grandfather used it to shoot groundhogs out of the field into the early 1990's.  It hasn't been shot since then.  Its seen hard use.  Here is a link to some pictures of it (please ignore the ugly avatar of the 18th century Englishman and Frenchman wannabe!).

Link:  http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v63/mistumpjumper/Muzzleloader/

If the link doesn't work for you, let me know, I'll try something else.

RCJ,

This is a scan of a small-town professionally shot picture of the original my mother-in-law has.  We had it hanging on the wall, the sun used to hit it part of the day; after a couple of years it started turning color.  I don't know if the photographer had unknown problems with the developer or if the sun or something else contributed to it.  I didn't have a matte between it and the frame glass, perhaps that contributed to it?  I will ask my mother-in-law if I can borrow the original and scan it at home.  That might give a better picture.

Elderly,

My best guess is that it is a pile of hewn logs, but I can't be sure.  The family immigrated from Switzerland in the first half of the 19th century, or so the story goes (along with the standard family tale that the father, Christian Howald, was in charge of the King's gold and ran off with some).

I like how Goforth has what appears to be a powder flask hanging from his shoulder.  My wife's g-g-grandfather, John Howald, has what appears to be a CW cap box on his belt; I would like to see more clearly the large belt buckle that Christian (the younger) Howald seems to be wearing (he has the checked shirt on).

All:

Thank you for the comments, they are most welcome.  I will try to get a scan of the original this weekend and post it, maybe it will be of better quality.

[Lone Gunman]

I did a quick Photoshop job to clear it up a little. It looks like CasCity automatically resizes all the images to 600 px now, even those hosted off-site.
Here it is at 1024X517: http://www.lone-gunman.com/hunters.jpg

Yes, they are all veterans of the Civil War (Union).

We could tell they were Yankees by the fact it took seven of them to slay two rabbits & a feral hamster.    (OK, I'm not 100% sure of the ID on the hamster, the 3rd guy from the left is holding something that's NOT a rabbit)

Goforth's holster is interesting, he's wearing it for left hand draw but he appears to be right handed. I'd also guess that his (and possibly others) long gun is a smoothbore. Most of the old powder flasks I've seen with the rings to attach a lanyard like this have had dram heads on them.

We may have my wife's g-g-grandfather's muzzleloader...

That would be quite a prize. All of my ancestors guns were confiscated as evidence.

[Delmonico]

I'd say that either end of the time frame suggested  could be right.  As for the lack of repeating arms a thought on that.  In the area suggested would one really need to spend most of or more than a months wages for a gun that shot more expensive ammo when a muzzle loader would do fine.  I may be wrong with out knowing the history of that area at the time, but I wonder after almost a 100 years of settlement if there would be a lot besides small game to hunt?  If there was no need to protect oneself from hostile natives, border ruffians, cattlemen, sod busters, sheep herders or others of the like, the single shot muzzle loader would work fine and cost very little compared to buying a more modern gun requiring expensive ammo.

George, I think the odd critter is a muskrat.

Bill, I belive if I remember right we have one of those Ohio muzzle loaders on display at NSHS Museum.  It was in a side gallery where I often didn't do tours when I was a Docent so I am not 100% sure of what it is, but  as I remember it was a small half stock from Ohio of I think 28 caliber.  I need to get down there again to do some research and digging and try to talk my way into the vaults again.  When I get down there I will see what it is and who made it and where for sure.  Will try to get some pictures if you would like.

I always was more interested in the Roten made in Nebraska City , not that I don't like the small rifles of that school, but the one made in Nebraska was always dearer to my heart, esp since it was made in Nebraska City, the town I was born in.

[Hardscrabble Gus]

'Ol Gabe, thanks for the welcome!  You know, I've looked at the picture for several years and never noticed the Morgan brothers seeming to do what you pointed out:  ramrod in barrel and the other cutting a patch.

Lone Gunman, wow!  Nicely done, using the link helps greatly.  Thank you.

[Shotgun Steve]

Howdy Hardscrabble Gus ...Glad to see you posting here.
Take care my friend.
Shotgun Steve

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Del,
Yes I would like to see a photo of the rifle. The rifles of the percussion period manufactured in this area has a very distinct feature of the butt stock as it had a slight curve to the underside. This could be radical or a slight curve but was unique to the area.......some what like the old Dutch flintlocks would have.

I don't think this is a reverse image as all the locks on the rifles are on the right side.

LG,
Taking into consideration the small stature of the rifles...I don't think they were smoothbores, The Powder flask looks like a large Colt flask and the revolver looks like a Colt, I don't see a top strap on it.

Maybe he is holding it in his right hand because he is right handed and the holster is a military style holster made to be worn butt forward, and.......he is holding a rifle in his left. Plus, this is a posed photo...

Bill

[Delmonico]

I'll see if I can get down there next week Bill.  If it is still on display I'll see of I can get some pictures through the glass case.  Depends on who is there, I may be able to arrange have them get it out.