Do 1858s have an indexing problem?

[sharps54]

I have read (and heard from one fella in person who didn't have the gun with him) that some Remingtons have an indexing problem where they will go right past battery if cocked too fast (or by some accounts too slow) and was wondering if anyone here had any experiences with that. The ones involved were Piettas I believe. I didn't know if this was a case of a few lemons or a bigger problem that isn't talked about much. I kind of doubt the latter but figured you would be the folks to ask! Against all good sense and advice I am still thinking about shooting C&B for SASS and the fact I don't have to worry about spent caps falling in the action makes the Remingtons mighty attractive.
Thanks,
Mild Myles

[Tuolumne Lawman]

HOWDY,

I have owned and or fired about every brand of 1858 clone (about 15 different guns) though the last 15 years and NEVER had an indexing problem.  In fact, I have on 1860 Colt clones and conversions occasionally, but never a Remmie (thats what I shoot exclusively now).

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I've had a handful of 58's and they've all been Ubertis. None of them had any indexing problems except one pistol with one aftermarket cylinder that would over-rotate if cocked fast. I was able to cure that and it didn't do it again.

[Fox Creek Kid]

My question would be if you're going to shoot duelist (one handed) or two handed and cock fast & furious? If the former then you have nothing to worry about. If the latter then you're on your own.

[Flint]

One thing the Italian Remingtons (and Colts, for that matter) are noted for is a fast failing hand spring, and springs are something the Italians seem to have trouble making.

A weak hand spring will cause over rotation, as the braking effect is lost, which helps stop the rotation.  The replacement springs from Italy are no better.  Some have had good luck making a new spring from a bobby pin...

[Marshal Tac]

I'm with Flint on this one... If your springs are good, you shouldn't see this problem. That is not limited to the '58's. If your spings start wearing out on a Colt or Italian clone you will have the same problem. A spare set of springs for all my wheel guns are kept close at hand for just such an issue.

[sharps54]

Thanks for all the responses.
Marshal Will Wingam,
The one fella I talked to in person was indeed using a R&D conversion cylinder in the revolver he said would over rotate.
Fox Creek Kid,
I want to shoot B-Western in SASS so while I will primarly shoot duelist when the occasion rears it head I might thumb cock for fast and furious Maybe I should look at Ruger Old Armys for the B-Western class. I am also going to set up a post Civil War era  Quartermaster SGT uniform for GAF / NCOWS which depending on the year I was thinking the 1858 could work. I guess the answer may be to buy both!

Actually it looks like I just need to try the 1858s and carry some extra springs with me. You would think with all the interest between CAS and CW reenactors someone would make some decent springs for these things.

Is there any indication the Ubertis would do better then the Piettas in this regard, I can set up with a pair of Piettas for around $400.

Thanks all!
Mild Myles

[Cincinnati Slim]

Howdy,

Yes Sir the springs do wear out and break with some frequency. Spares are indeed a very good idea. I've seen some old ordinance records from the 1860s and broken bolt and hand springs were frequent even back then. Wire springs are availble for Colts but not Remmies as far as I know. Seems like there's a market here, somebody ought to step up and offer a better qualitysprings for these Remmie repros.

Slim

[Marshal Will Wingam]

You can always make your own springs out of piano wire. I just keep a spare pistol along. Something breaks, I pull out the spare.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Cheap steak knife blades make great hand springs and you can make a lot of them out of one blade.

[Sunwapta Haze]

I have a Pietta which does over rotate when cocked too fast.  My older Navy Arms (Uberti manufactured) works perfectly.  I haven't taken the time to figure out the problem yet as I typically shoot C&B duelist style but I suspect the problem will be with the bolt. 

I have had mega problems with my '75s over rotating and just recently determined that problem is indeed the bolt  - in one case the bolt was just a tad thick and didn't fully engage the stop slot and in the other case the leading edge of the bolt was rounded and it would basicaly bounce out of the slot.  Here again as long as I shot duelist it wasn't a problem.

[sundance44`s]

Only time I ever had an index problem with any of my remmies/ 7 at one time down to 4 now ....the problem was always a weak hand spring , putting a little more bend in it was the fix .....pistol would index right when cocked pointed down , and would skip with the barrel pointed in the air ...careful doing the bending though , they break easy .

[Montana Slim]

Well, I adjusted a pair of Uberti's for one of my friends that were over-indexing ONLY when the Kirst cylinders were installed. I was able to improve them by adjusting the bolt.

Slim

[sharps54]

OK, so what I am getting here is that if cocked fairly slowly (duelist) there isn't much of a problem, if a specific revolver has an issue it can probably be addressed, and if I want to be able to shoot fast and furious (two handed) I should probably look at another revolver, probably a Ruger Old Army if I want a C&B. Sounds like I need to order an 1858, play with it and go from there.
Thanks!
Mild Myles

[Fox Creek Kid]

Rugers are designed for the bolt to rise early, hence their scoring of the cylinders. If you want to shoot a Colt style gun fast & furiously two handed then you'll probably need a competent CAS 'smith to adjust the bolt to rise early. Remingtons (the '58 Model) have no bolt approach notches so this is another matter altogether. There's another reason why Colt style guns can over rotate on the last few rounds when cocked fast and furious & that is centrifugal force. Think of it like a flywheel weighted on one end & spinning.

[hellgate]

Cock the gun reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel slowwwwwwwwwwwww and watch when the bolt snaps up to stop the cylinder. Sometimes you need to take a hair off the wing of the bolt to have it come up a little sooner if it is late rising. Also putting a tiny bit of bevel on the bolt will allow it to sink into the cutout as the cylinder turns. I.E. if the bolt comes up as the cutout passes over it the cylinder may just rotate right on past the lockup. The tweeking mentioned above should cure it. I've had the overtravel problem with a beater Euroarms Remmie and a couple of Piettas.

[Montana Slim]

Remember, If you're shooting a match with C&B and want to shoot in the C&B "class"...(Frontiersman/SASS, Pistoleer/NCOWS), you'll be shooting duelist anyway 

Slim