Blanks for Revolvers and Shotguns

[Singing Bear]

Okay, sorry but my search was fruitless, maybe more futless.  Something wasn't working right and I couldn't find squat.

We have the rare opportunity to do some gunfight reenactments here in Hawai'i.  I need BP blanks for revolvers as well as shotguns as one of the scenarios is for the gunfight at the OK Corral.  Go figure.  Tourists are going to come here to see a gunfight that took place in AZ?  Oh well, it's an opportunity none the less.  Can anyone help me out here?  Mahalo plenty! 

[Mad Mucus]

G'day SB,

Try this thread for starters...

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,13595.msg172032.html#msg172032

Mucus

[Singing Bear]

Thanks MM.  Florist Foam.  I knew there was something I could use that would basically cease to exist when the charge goes off.  Couldn't remember. 

As brought up in that thread, there's still a lot of unanswered questions of the promoters.  We don't know where this will be taking place or if it's even legal to use real firearms.  Liability is also another concern.  As for training, we do have movie studios and efx experts.  We'd have to talk to the promoters about hiring them for help.  We may even have to hire on real actors as I don't think our club can accomodate the number of cowboys they need.  Lots of questions and hope to get some answers this weekend.   

[rickk]

look into the N-SSA web site and their rules for blanks for skirmishing. You will be doing basically the same thing, just maybe with cartridges rather than percussion guns. The charges and engagement rules should be the same. From a liability point of view, they are experienced at re-enacting, their rules are established, and are considered "acceptable" .

[rickk]

I have been playing with blanks for a couple of my 12 g SxS, mostly to give my wife an option of scaring a neighborhood bear away before blowing him away with buckshot.

I wanted something mild, that would be safe not only in a "modern" nitro-proofed 1935 Ithica, but also a a damascus barrel 2 - 1/2 inch chamber double that is wicked fun to shoot with light BP loads.

I wound up trimming plastic case down to 2 inches OAL with a wood bit in my drill press (holding it with a MEC supersizer), and loading with 5 drams of 1F powder and a thin overshot card. Wicked loud..... recoil is noticable but just barely, lots of fire and smoke out the front on an overcast day as well. It is really cool in the newer (1935) gun, which has a single trigger, to pull the trigger twice as fast as you can 

The nice thing about the blank shells being only 2 inches long is that it is obvious that they are "different".

Of course, even though it is a blank it would really be stupidly dangerous to stand anywhere in front of it for quite a ways. On an overcast day you can see flaming stuff for a good 30 yards. I have no idea how far the non-flaming stuff travels.

Be really careful, and have a lotta fun.

[Wills Point Pete]

 Something important to recall is that, even when reenacting a gunfight with blanks, don't aim the guns directly at the other guys. Those wads HURT and if one smacked into an eye could put it out.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

I've been loading the blank 44/45 cartridges for our club's re-enactments for about 3 years now.  We use 44 Russian cases.  They will fit and work in any 44 OR 45 cal. revolver, and one at a time in SOME rifles.  I've also done some 12 ga. and 45-70 boomers.  I use whatever 2f or 3f powder we can find the cheapest.  I can get (depending on the lot) 26-30 gr. (dropped volumetrically, then weighed to find out the quantity) of 3f in the latest batch of 1500 I just finished.  We'll go 'thru 2000-2500 per season.  I don't load the other calibers, just the 44/45s.

I soak, clean & polish 'em just like real ammo, then resize/deprime them.  This is to remove the crimp from the previous loading as there is no appreciable case expansion from firing.  Then, they are re-primed and bell-mouthed a bit.  Powder is dropped, a Circle Fly (or whatever brand is on hand) wad placed on top, then I run them under my compression die where they are compressed about 1/16".  I then put a more-than-with-a-bullet crimp on them.  Voila'.  Oh, one of our other members took all 1500 new (then) Starline cases and drilled out the primer holes to help with primer set-back, but we've still got some set-back from time to time.  The holes were drilled to the absolute maximum possible diameter, 9/64", that still allows proper primer function.  I'm not sure what size the rounds that use small primers were drilled to.  I haven't noticed the need for the drilling in the few 12 ga, and 45-70 cases I've loaded.  All these blanks are VERY realistic and produce lots of noise, smoke and - if dark enough - fire!

I've never used the foam, but have heard it produces great results.  Wills Point Pete brought up a GREAT and important point: NEVER EVER  point these directly at someone - they CAN cause damage!!!

Singing Bear, good luck!  Your fellow re-enactors will have fun as will onlookers. 

[Deadeye Don]

Just to add credence to the above posts about blanks being dangerous,  Brandon Lee (son of Bruce) was killed by a blank on the set of a movie in 1993.  From the description I have seen it appears the wading from the blank perforated his abdominal cavity and lodged in his spine.  Sugery was attempted, but he died from the wound.  Safe shooting.  Deadeye.

[rickk]

I seem to recall that the N-SSA re-enactors point the guns up over the "enemies" heads to avoid pointing directly at them.

That may be OK with rifles and handguns.... I guess they have determinted that it is.

With the shotgun the flaming stuff can be seen arcing and evenrtually heading downward, so even if it was held high there may be a possibility of getting hit with burning particles or a wad. At any distance I doubt the a wad or the burning embers would hurt anywhere but the eyes.

If it were me, I would be wearing eye protection no matter what.

Also, before I started cutting 12 g hulls to 2 inches, I put a lubed, 1/2 inch fiber wad in there to take up the excess space. At 20 yards the wad was taking down plastic milk jugs with a fair amount of repeatability. There was even a noticable recoil. Best to avoid heavy wads and stick to a thin overpowder wad only.

If you don't trim the hulls, you will probably have to use 6-7 drams of powder to fill the case without adding some sort of filler. 5 drams (137 grains) is really loud, and I am using 1F (cuz it can be gotten really cheap). I'm pretty sure 2F or 3F would be even louder. 7 drams is way louder than needed.

Besides reducing the volume, trimming cases has an added advange of getting past the star crimp and leaving a clean edge for roll crimping (which just looks way cooler anyway).

Try patterning whatever blank load you are going to use at dusk when you can see the burning stuff easier. It may help you figure out where the danger zone is.

[rickk]

One other thing I forgot to mention... I said that I use 1F cuz it is cheap.

Check out the "Skirmish Powder" available from www.powderinc.com

It is really popular with re-enactor groups. They have not only 1F , but also 3F. I use the 1F mostly in my cannons for blanks. The 3F is ideal for blanks in rifles and handguns. For shotguns 3F is a little too fine, so if you order some, you can mix a case and get some of each.

The prices listed include shipping/hazmat. 25# cases are the most economical way to go. You get the same discount price based on total order quantity no matter if it is all the same stuff or mixed.  I'm nost sure how shipping to Hawaii works though. If the rates are similar, it is a really cheap way to shoot.

[Sky Soldier]

I shoot up about 100 rounds/week of .45 Colt blanks getting horses used to gunfire. Sometimes it's primers only but most times it's a full charge of BP.
About every third feeding (1-1/2 days) I bring 2 SAA's and twenty five rounds with me to the barn and have a shootout at the old hay corral.
I started with some of my reloading brass and drilled the flash holes out to .145", popped in some Federal LP Primers, put in 35 gr. of Goex ffg BP and compress it with my MEC .410 shot shell reloader. That leaves me with about 3/16" of head space which I fill with yellow cornmeal, cover it with a wad cut from file folder stock (.010), compress it again with the MEC (a wood dowel would work as well) and paint on a little bit of melted beeswax to seal.
They are good, reliable, make a lot of smoke and noise and in my opinion are about as safe as you can get fooling around with firearms.
My $0.02 hope it helps