1858 Remington Special Care Needed?

[Catdad]

I'm pretty certain I'm going to be getting rid of my "problem child" 1872 Open Top and getting an 1858 Remington instead. I'll be shooting strictly cartridges with the '58.  Do I need to purchase any lube or anything else special for it?  The '58 will be the "older brother" that my 1875 has been wanting 

[knucklehead]

I just use bore butter to lube my 58 remm with the kirst cart conversion cylinder.

and i use balistal/water mixture to clean it up.

my .58 remm hits poa everytime with the conversion cylinder.
i also use the cowboy 45 special brass in it with no problems and very little recoil.

[Marshal Tac]

I'm with Knucklehead on this one too.

I lube the cylinder pin with bore butter and clean with hot soapy water. No problems. My '58's with the R&D conversions shoot very well with .45 Colt/Schofield/Cowboy Special rounds.

As far as lubing the cylinder pin goes, I use a "needle oiler" that I had bought from Brownells. I just got the bore butter warm by holding the tube under warm water, then poured it into the needle oiler. I then put the oiler in my vest pocket and lube the pin up after I clear the cylinders at the unloading table. The needle oiler works very well in getting only the lube you need, where you need it without making a mess or having to carry around the big tube of bore butter. It will squirt it out when it is cold and thick with some squeezing, but works best when the lube had warmed up and is in liquid form.

[Flint]

A benifit of the drop-in cylinder for the 58 is that you remove the cylinder to load and unload, giving you an opportunity to clean and lube the cylinder pin and cylinder when you unload.  The 75 Remington doesn't shoot a lot of cylinders full of black before stoipping, either, and would also need to be lubed and cleaned after a few stages.

Smokeless in both guns, of course will let them last a whole match without fouling out.

With black powder 45Colt loads, use "Big Lube", or other black powder bullets lubed with SPG or Lyman black powder lube.  I use Black Dawg bullets, and they keep the fouling down.

What problems did you have with your Opentop?

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I lube with Olive Oil on the internals and sometimes the cylinder pin, but I also use Bore Butter on the pin and the pawl and in each chamber mouth..BP or Cartridge. I can shoot 5 stages without slowing down the cylinder action. I do wipe them after each stage, but my 143 year old Remy NMA Conversions rockand roll all day long.

I use NO petroleum dirrivitives at all to clean or lube with, BTW one Remy uses an R & D drop-in conversion cylinder and the other uses it's conversion cylinder. Both rock and roll extremely well. The R & D dropped right into tthe older of these guns(it didn't have a recoil shield with it and was never cut for one.

[Catdad]

What problems did you have with your Opentop?

First, there were a number of burrs in it which I discovered the first time I shot it.  I took it back to my dealer, he got those cleaned out and out of a hundred rounds, I still had about 15 misfires the second time out.  My first thought was, I wasn't cocking the hammer all the way back, so some of those could have been my fault. I took it apart and cleaned it real well and took it out a week later.  This time, it fired twice, and then no more after that (and I tried 4 cylinders full).  So it went back to the dealer.  He called me back a couple of days ago and said he found the gun is very fussy when it comes to placement of the wedge (how far in it goes). He also found some other minor adjustments that needed to be made once the gun is taken apart and put together after cleaning.  I'm going to be meeting with him tomorrow to find out exactly what adjustments/placements need to be made.  After meeting with him, I'll determine whether to keep it or trade it back to him for an 1858 Remington (with additional cash). 

My 1875 Remington and the Open Top, both only get cowboy .45 Colt cartridges.  If I do get the 1858, it will have to share its cartridges with 1875.

[sundance44`s]

Always been strickly an 1858 Remmie shooter ....but had my eye on the 1872 Colt open top for a while now ...I always thought By 1872 all the kinks would be worked out after all it can`t eat caps  ....well after reading your post ...I`m back to adoreing my Remmies ...I know if I buy a Colt open top and end up with problems , I`ll just leave it at home , way back in the darkest part of the gun safe , along with the flint lock rifle , I thought I wanted .

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I think you should look at the firing pin. Some had soft ot short firing pins and you can buy aftermarket firing pins and that should ease your pain. Some of the OT shoot will chime in and post this on The STORM forum and they can help you with your OT problems.

[Catdad]

I think you should look at the firing pin. Some had soft ot short firing pins and you can buy aftermarket firing pins and that should ease your pain. Some of the OT shoot will chime in and post this on The STORM forum and they can help you with your OT problems.

The firing pin being too short was my first thought as to the cause of the problem.  I had that problem with my 1875, but we checked the pin against one that we know works and they were the same length. I had posted on STORM regarding my problems.  I just think the Open Top might be more "maintenance" than what I care to deal with.  I'll find out tonight and make the decision to keep it or not.  I'll post my decision and let you all know what I do.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I bought one of Cimarron's first OT's in 44 Colt and 2000 44 Colt cartridges from Black Hills and had nothing but problems with it shooting loose. I sold it to a gunsmith that knew all about it and he siad he could fix it...Don't know he ever did. I'll stick to my Remy's and the 1851 navy's.

[Catdad]

I got rid of the Open Top and got the 1858 Remington instead. My dealer gave me my full purchase price for it since I hadn't shot it much, he has people who would like to buy it and the price has gone up quite a bit since I got it. The Remington cost an extra $58, however I believe it will be worth it in less hassles alone.  I brought the '58 home and took the cylinder out to look at it, but  haven't been able how to get it put back in place   I know with enough patience, I'll get it eventually. It's just as well, I won't have time to shoot it for a couple of weeks yet.

[Marshal Tac]

Catdad,
To remove/replace the cylinder on a '58....

Cock the hammer to half-cock, pull the latch, drop the ram arm, pull the cylinder pin out and rotate the cylinder out to the right, while turning it clock-wise with your fingers.

To re-install, drop the hammer back down, roll the cylinder clock-wise into the frame from the left side of the frame, while pulling back on the hammer just enough to allow the cylinder in (not hard enough to cock the gun). Center the cylinder in the frame, slide the cylinder pin back in and close the ram arm.

May not be "test book", but has worked for me without fail or problem.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

That's interesting. I half cock mine, drop the rammer lever a bit,pull the pin and cramp it with the lever the roll the cylinder out the right side. to replace I have the pin cramped by the lever, rolling the cylinder clock wise, I insert it fronm the right, open the lever and push the pin in and close the lever, then pull off  half cock and gently lower the hammer on an empty chamber.

Doing it this way I can drop the back off the conversion cylinder and dump the brass with my right hand, put the back on the cylinder and re-insert all with one hand.

Am I doing it backards?? Don't know but it works for me...I'm right handed.

If you have it on half cock you will not mar the cylinder at the bolt stops or between.

I guess this is basically what Marshall Tac said but Just re inserting the cylinder from the right instead of the left side.

[Catdad]

I managed to get the cylinder put back in proper position by inserting it from the right with the loading gate open. The key to the problem was having the hammer on half-cock. When I was trying before, I had the hammer cocked all the way back. Attached is a picture of my "boys" taken with my camera-phone.

[Marshal Tac]

I see yours are cartridge converted Remmies. Mine are standard cap and ball guns with the R&D cylinders. They do not have the loading gate or the hand ejector. I have to remove the cylinders in mine to reload them. Obviously you do not. Just make sure to keep that cylinder pin oiled. A fine nozzled tube that you can fill with bore butter or olive oil (if your shooting Holy Black of sub)will work well to get it to the pin without having to take the gun apart (remove the cylinder). I use a "needle oiler" that I bought from Brownells, 3 for $2. I use them at work too and had a spare one that I brough home for the Remmies.

[Montana Slim]

With NM Remington's try the following:

Remove to The RIGHT.
Install from the LEFT.

Start with the hammer at rest.
Slightly raise the hammer as the cylinder is inserted/removed.....you'll find a sweet-spot and it''l fall in/out as desired.

Enjoy,

Slim

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I agree, Slim. That's the way I do it. It's really fast and easy that way.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Don't you lose a little time switching sides???
I guess it doesn't matter if it works for you.
Is this in the ROA or the 58 Clones? or both?

[Marshal Will Wingam]

You don't loose any time at all. You hold the pistol in your right hand and pull the hammer back slightly while pushing the cylinder out with your left thumb into the fingers of your left hand. Cylinder out, hammer down. With the new cylinder, hold it with the thumb and fingers of your left hand, fingers through the frame and rotate the cylinder into the frame while pulling the hammer back with your right hand. No switching at all. Out the right side, in the left side. Simple, the only hand that moves away is the left when you put down the old cylinder and pick up the new one. I guess you could do it with both in your hand, but I never bothered to learn how. Keep two cylinder holders on your belt and stuff the old one first then pick up the new one.

I never tried an Old Army but it sure works for the '58's.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Well I'll be horn swoggled!

I do it completely different but I gets the job done. Biggest difference that I see besides the out the right in the left, is I halfcock the pistol to drop the bolt so it stays down. Pull the pin and capture it with the rammer, roll the cylinder out the right side. pull the back off the cylinder , tap the pawl on the bench to unload, reload 5, but the back on the cylinder and roll it in clockwise from the right, release the pin, and shove it home...all the time holding the pistol by the bbl and the rammer in my left hand.

I guess I learned something new. I'll have to try it to see if it is easiler or faster.