A late 1890's look for ya ta ponder

[Delmonico]

I don't have a photo program here at work, but can post better on that part later.  But you can go to:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award98/nbhihtml/pshome.html

and type 12615 into the search.  Clickon the thumbnail picture and you get the picture full size as it was taken.  Click on the blue enhanced image button below the phot and you get it really good.  If on dial up or a slow computor go get a coffee and a snack while it loads.

[Delmonico]

Here is a better shot of the pistol, looks like an 1890 Remington to me.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy folks,

Well, 3 of the guys clearly have bests holding up their pants, but only one clearly shows belt loops.  7 of the 16 have mustaches.  The fellow in the 3 piece suit must be the Boss Man.

Could be bleachers, but hard to tell, even with the super size photo.

Belts on 3 of 16 in 1905!  Verrrrry Interesting!

The vests all seem to have notched collars.

[James Hunt]

The posting of these pictures has generated a variety of interests, but to go back to the issue of a single leather lace connecting the waist belt on the chap with the waist belt no having an inch or more space between it, I found the following comment in a source we all know of (the value of re-reading something read many times before):

From I See By Your Outfit, Lindmor and Mount, High Plains Press, Glendo Wyoming, 1996, p. 84. I qoute

"Around 1910, the dip belt was introduced, on which the front of the belt halves curved downward. This added a great deal of comfort as the belt did not cut into the stomach while the cowboy was mounted. The single thong or narrow buckled strap which connected the two legs along the top did not become popular until more recent times, when rodeo riders became concerned that the lacing would catch on the saddle horn, causing injury."

Well, I am not sure what recent times means to Lindmoor and Mount but it appears that the concept of a single lace connecting a seperation at the waist belt came before the dip belt (maybe the authors got it wrong). Further it may be that the reason the belt was seperated was that these early bronc riders discovered it to be more comfortable, and that a single lace held just fine and was more convenient than multiple laces, and after someone got hung up on the horn only to see the lace breack discovered it to be a safety factor also. Speculation on the later, but a little secondary documentation for the development of the chap style.

Point being that if you are portraying a cowboy of our period, straight top on the waist belt and the belt either one piece or laced tightly together.

Further references greatly appreciated .

[Mick Archer]

 Howdy Pards!

  Why a M1890 Remington and not a M1875?  (I can't see enough detail of the hammer spur to tell the difference??)
   

   Mick Archer

[Delmonico]

As far as I know the 1890's all had lanyard swivels.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

The grips look Remington, being in his pocket would indicate to me a shorter barrel length. Believe the '75's were 7 1/2's, the 1890's were 5 1/2's and with a lanyard ring, the '90's a better guess......................Buck

[Delmonico]

Here is a crop showing the "arena".  Looks like one, but a small one, some advertising signs also.

[Tubac]

Delmonico, here's a photo of my 1890 Remington, no lanyard loop.
Regards,
Tubac

[Books OToole]

Per (my ever handy) Flayderman's;  Most 1875s Remingtons, came with lanyard rings and  ,though rare, they were available with a 5 1/2 in barrel.

Books

[Delmonico]

Per (my ever handy) Flayderman's;  Most 1875s Remingtons, came with lanyard rings and  ,though rare, they were available with a 5 1/2 in barrel.

Books

Thanks Books, I wasn't sure on them and was going by memory.

[Dr. Bob]

Tubac,

My older copy of Flayderman's does not mention the lanyard ring in the 1890 description.  It does list a Mod. 1888 with a picture that has a 5.5 in barrel and no ring. 

[Delmonico]

Thank you Chuck, I knew you'd have some answers when you had time.  I consider you one of the best sources for these type items.

[French Jack]

Funny, I cannot recall seeing a 1875 with a lanyard ring at any of the gun shows I have attended. Of course, since the rings were optional on the later models, I guess that means none of them were early issue.  None showed any signs of ever having one either.  On the other hand, all the 1890 models had a lanyard ring.  I also wonder if the barrel length on the revolver in question in the pic is not 7 1/2 inches.  Glance down at the outline of his trousers on that side, and you will see a small angle in the profile of the side seam, about where the muzzle of a 7 1/2 inch barrel would be.  Food for thought, anyway.

[Tubac]

French Jack,

I wouldn't say all 1890 Remingtons had a lanyard ring, as mine doesn't. See photo on page 3.
It's a high S/N 1844, so maybe it was optional in the last runs.

Tubac

[Mick Archer]

  Howdy Pards!

   Factory production Remingtons M1875 were standard with the 7 1/2 barrels.  However, custom orders made 5 1/2.
   Lanyard rings in the M1875 were standfard, yet some are found without.  I wonder if it was a custom order savings of a few cents NOT to have one (like swivels on a Henry M1860).
   The same appears true for the rare Remington M1888 and the later M1890.


 



  Mick Archer   

[Fox Creek Kid]

Nice photos, Mr. Archer. As a point, whether a revolver had a lanyard ring or not could greatly depend on the market. S&W put a lot of lanyards on revolvers ordered by dealers for Mexico & South America as that was an embellishment that was in demand there & not so much here.

[Mick Archer]

  Howdy Pards!

  Here is an Egyptian contract Remington.

   

   While it is believed that the U.S. Government bought 6,000 of the Remington M1875's, there are no official records, nor are there any M1875's with U.S. inspectors' stamps.  It slips my memory at the moment, but I believe the U.S. Indian Scouts (Police?) were issued nickel plated ones).

  At various times, Remington themselves referred to the M1875 as the "Egyptian Model,"  the "Improved Army," and the "No. 3 Army.

  Oddly enough, maybe, the biggest fan of the Remington M1875 (other than Frank James... and me  ;-) ) was Egypt.   Between 1875 and 1876 they purchased 10,000 in .44 Remington CF.

    Next came Mexico who by 1895  (production ceased of the M1875 in 1888) had bought 2,000 in .38!

    Mick Archer

[Books OToole]

Mick;

Great Remington pictures.  What is your source?  I have yet to find a really good Remington book.  Karr's Remington Handguns is adequate and that is what I use along with Flayderman's.  Do you have any pics of the short (5 1/2") barrelled 1875s?

Books

[Mick Archer]

  Howdy Pards!

   Books lad, sorry,  no I do not.  Off the top of my head, I do not recall ever seeing a 5 1/2 '75 for real or in pictures.

   Regarding images,  I scrounge and scavenge through various on-line auctions and auction house listings just to save to my personal info/reference files.  The "higher end/higher priced "houses" or "firms" seem to have the rarer stuff or the "nicer/better condition stuff."
  Of course some copyright their images, and block any downloading.

    Mick Archer