1851's vs Navy OT's ?

[Anontex2]

Hoping to join STORM soon, but must first decide between Cimarron 1851's and Navy OT's.  I am planning on going w/.38 Spcl.  Could you guys share your thoughts on significant differences between the two models?  Pros and cons?  Thanks!   Bill

[Dusty Morningwood]

Welcome to the STORM.  If you hope for a concensus, you came to the wrong place!    The 51 RM Conversions in .38 are real nice.  With the 7 1/2 barrel they point quite naturally.  I shoot .44 Russian in an Open Top.  It is chambered for .44 Specal so I can shoot Special, Colt and Russian in it.  The OTs were never chambered in .38, which is why I went with .44s.  My 66 and Henry are both .44 Special and I plan to have both modified to shoot Russian.  So you see where I am going: I seek as close to authenticity as the law allows.  I have been told, but have no personal proof, that the RMs are a bit fussier.  I will let the RM guys weigh in now.  In any event, the OPs and RMs are the prettiest pistols you will see on the line, IMHO.

[Marshal Deadwood]

I to have a OT/Army grip/ .44sp. THought bout setting up for .44colt,,but perhaps russian is best overall.
What about shorter case 'ringing' the cylinder and makeing later use of say specials hard to use or cause probs ?
Ever hear of shorter round ruining the cylinder for longer rounds ?

I like army grips better perosnaly,. They feel good and make a gun looks sleeker i think. Im also big fan of 1860 Army percussion revolvers.

Marshal Deadwood

[Anontex2]

Thanks, Dusty and Marshal! 

[Major 2]

Another Army fan here also.... though I owe one 51 percussion ( a Colt 2 Gen.)

Though my Army Conversions are Richards Type I's ( I have a Type II on order  )  I have an OT

I guess if you put me on the spot I say the 51 Conversion, next to the 60 Army it is gun makers art !
Not to mention the beauty of the 61 Navy conversion.

[Flint]

I have two Opentops, with cylinders and barrels to shoot 44Special/Colt/Russian, 38Sp and 45Sch.  I love them.  I prefer to shoot 44 Russian in them.  They won't ring the chambers as long as you keep them clean.  Black powder cleans up more easily than smokeless in that department, as I found over the years that smokeless carbon is a real chore to remove, short of a carburetor cleaning bath.

Once you've washed out black powder fouling, the gun is clear of carbon, but smokeless always leaves a skin of carbon in the chambers which a wire brush in a drill motor will remove with some effort.

The 44 Russian is a super black powder round, as it holds just the amount of powder you would want in the 44Special for Cowboy shooting, without the need for a wad or filler.  Light recoil, lots of smoke and fire, accurate.  The Opentop's gas ring keeps the fouling off the cylinder pin, so they will shoot lots of rounds before they foul to a stop.

In smokeless loads, the 44 Russian has the smaller capacity, right for light loads.  The 44 also balances better than the 38, as it has less steel hanging out on the barrel and in the cylinder.  I have shot 45Schofield as well, but look with suspicion at the thin cylinder walls, and the rim barely clears the loading port.

I never bothered to tool up to reload the 44Colt, just one more case that would be harder to sort when they all look alike.  The Russian is short enough to spot in a pile of mixed brass.  The Russian will shoot in 44 Special and 44 Magnum guns as well, making the 44Magnum a 4 caliber revolver.

The R-M conversions have the rear sight on the hammer like the cap & ball guns, so you have a longer sight radius, but a little rear sight notch.  The Opentop rear sight is on the barrfel, so the radius is shorter.  That presumes you really use the rear ight when you shoot CAS.

If your hand is accustomed to the gun and grips, so you point it straight and level when you shoot, you only need to spot the front sight on the target, the bullet will follow.  The pinky finger under the grip helps level the gun.

Dusty mentioned the R-M conversions are "fussier".  I would say the 72 Opentop has fewer parts, and that always helps.  The loading gate is built into the standing breech, like a SAA, where the R-M gate is part of the conversion ring assenbly, which is attached to the standing breech.  One more part to come loose or whatever.

Either gun is pretty, and both shoot well.  I like the looks of the Opentop better, but I like the looks of the Cimarron R-M as well (and the Kirst and R&D gated conversions I've made to 51 Navies.  Of course, they are now ersatz 38s, but lighter guns to start with).  Shooter's choice.  I think the Navy grip is a better pointer than the Army grip, with your pinky under the butt, which will lift the gun higher with the Army grips unless you have large hands, the Navy might be a better choice in grips.

[The Avocado Kid]

Flint,I found out what the revolver is because I picked it up yesterday-an Open Top Navy in 38spl,date code(BU)2004. When I got the gun home I gave it a cleaning,I thought it was an unfired gun-wrong! Loaded with black powder left-overs. So...in the end when all is said and done it is a beauty of a gun but I would like to have gotten one in 44cal but at the price I paid $325 from a dealer(gun looks brand new), I can't complain, which is something our Pard who started this thread should think about, buy a used OT/RM, used even from a dealer,the price will really come down,Gun Shows??? Dusty NutSack A/K/A Mickey66

[Coffinmaker]

So much for being slow on the response. 
Flint stole some of my thunder.  I also shoot multi caliber Open Tops.  Mine are also set up with cylinders and barrels for all three calibers:  .38, .44 and .45 Schofield.  The Open Top is the most versatile gun we shoot.  There is so much we can do with it.  Of course, for most of it, you have to throw dollars at 'em.  My guns however, have Army grip frames.  Just my preference.
Now,
Just started shooting a pair of R-M 51 Navy.  .38.  I like 'em.  Allot.  They point very well.  I first figured the itty bitty "v" in the hammer would be a problem as a rear sight.  What itty bitty "V"   I don't even look for the rear sight on these guns.  The entire barrel is the sight plane!!!  Just center the big brass bead on the barrel, plant it on the target and ........ KLANG!!  I may in the future commit sacrilege and switch to Army grip frames,  But for now, I REALLY like these Navy conversions.

I don't think you can go wrong with either

Coffinmaker 

[Anontex2]

What length barrel, Coffinmaker?  Same question to everyone else...I'm leaning to 5 1/2, but need your input.  Again, thanks, pards!

[Coffinmaker]

tex2,

Tough question.  I have a definite preference for short barrels.  I shoot Gunfighter, short barrels get out of the leather quicker and balance better in my hands than long barrels.  Notice I said "my hands."  Many shooters prefer the balance and hand of 5 1/2 or 7 1/2 but I prefer "short."  As short as I can get.  My Open Tops all have the barrels cut to the length of the ejector rod housing.  4 7/16.  My new Navy conversions will soon be as short.
If you have a preference for short barrels, order them from the importer with 4 3/4 barrels.  To date, 4 3/4 have not been available as a "part" for the Open Top.  I think they are available for the '51 Navy but don't quote me.  5 1/2 are available for both, all calibers, but currently, .38 cylinders are on back order.  I have two customers waiting for multi caliber Open Top "sets" as the .38 cylinders are back ordered.  You can switch barrel length on both the Open Top and the '51 with some fitting of the new barrel and wedge.  The Open Top can be set up with cylinder/barrel sets for all three chamberings.  The '51 Navy conversion cannot.  The breach rings are different for the conversions and the Open Top doesn't have breach rings.
I personally think the Open Top is the most versatile gun for CAS.  Purchase one gun, add calibers to it for about 200 bucks a pop.  One action job and shoot .38, .44 and .45 Schofield on the same frame.  Nifty.
I also noticed, on the most recent Open Tops to come into the shop, the frame was factory drilled for a spring and plunger hand spring.  Flint posted and excellent bit with photos, on the spring and plunger modification, using Ruger parts.  Awesome.
I also have a thing for conversions as my personal guns.  I shoot a bunch of different conversions.  However, when it comes to a serious match and I want to compete, I always pick my Open Tops as the "go to" guns.
Hope this helps.

Coffinmaker 

[The Avocado Kid]

I think Coffinmaker has hit the nail right on the head,he has given me an idea and I like it,one gun many different cal's,turn my O/T into a 44cal and also 38spl. I know 38spl will be a hoot to shoot but I'm into history also. I guess what I'm trying to say is look for a great deal on the gun(either 38 or 44) then you could change things around as you get into CAS-I have a six shooter SAA clone made in Germany in the 1950's in 44mag and I can shoot four cal's with it,pretty cool!

[The Avocado Kid]

I forgot to answer your question! My 1872 Navy Open Top is 7 1/2 barrel 38spl cal. brass backstrap & T/guard. Dusty NutSack.

[Anontex2]

Thanks Pards!  I plan to drive to Frederickburg next week and pick up a pair of consecutively numbered R-M '51 Navys.  Next Saturday is my birthday, so will be my birthday treat!  Appreciate all the input here....great community you guys have built.  Can't wait....

[Anontex2]

Oh, and the next pair will be OT's....and you KNOW there will be a next pair  LOL

[Coffinmaker]

Heck, there is always a NEXT pair.  Not possable to have too many.

Coffinmaker