.44 Remington centerfire

[Books OToole]

Accoding to Flayderman's most 1875 Remingtons were chambered for .44 Remington Centerfire.

Does anyone have the dimesions of this round?

How does it compare to .44 Russian or .44 Colt?

Books

[Dusty Morningwood]

Cartridges of the World shows no .44 Remington, other than .44 Remington Magnum, but says that .44 Colt was used in the 1875 Remington.

[Skinny Preacher 66418]

Didn't it use a heeled base bullet? Or was that just for the '58 .44 Conversions?

[Fox Creek Kid]

Halfway Creek Charlie is THE man 'round here for this question as he shoots a '58 with a Kirst cylinder chambered for the original .44 Remington (heel based). Charlie?

[French Jack]

The original rimfire cartridge that Remington utilized, was actually a .46 cal bullet.  These were conversions utilizing a 5 shot cylinder.  The original cylinder was too small in diameter to allow the use of .45 cartridges.  The .46 was a heel type bullet, and the case very much resembled the .44 Henry rimfire.  After the .44 Colt was developed, it was used with a heel type bullet.  More modern loadings use a hollow base bullet much like a Minie ball, unless the bore has been sleeved to allow the use of standard .44 bullets.  Modern repros such as the Cimarron Opentop chambered in .44 Colt, have the smaller diameter cylinder chambers and smaller bore ( nominal .44 ), to use standard .44 bullets.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Thank ye FCK,

Yes the 44 Remington/Colt C.F. is a heeled bullet.

Both Kirst and R& D make 44 Rem/Colt C.F. cylinders. (I didn't know that until I found a couple for sale). I called R &D and was assured that they have them in stock too.

The FIRST 1875 Remy's were chambered for the 44 Rem/Colt C.F. NOT the 44 Colt, later chambered for 44-40. Do not know about 44 Colt.

While it is correct that 44 Colt brass is used for the 44 Rem/Colt C.F., the bullet is heeled solid base (hollow based are used for 38 LC). 248 Grn. .451 dia 3 band 2 groove, outside lubed bullet available from Old West Moulds.

44 Colt is NOTthe same as 44 Rem/Colt C.F. by above dimensions. 44 Colt bullet is .429 dia. and will bounce out the bbl.

[mtmarfield]

   Half-Way Creek:

   Where can I find contact information for Old West Moulds? I have a F.Wesson 2-Trigger rifle in
.44RF/CF that could use a OL bullet mould!

   Thanks Mucho & Be Well!

              M.T.Marfield:.
                 3-29-07

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Bernie Knowles owns Old West Moulds
he doesn't have a website, but you can email him here.

allisonmonument@aol.com

Tell him Charlie in Acton California  sent ya.
Bernie is a good guy and will steer you right. I get all my 44 Rem/Colt C.F bullets, crimper Sizer dies and such from him. He also has several moulds and components.
No I don't get a break and I don't owe him any favors, nor am I on the payroll. He just has good stuff.

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

   Thanks Mucho for the information! I'll drop him a line. Acton... I think that I go past you on the 14 on the way to the Range; I'm in Orange Co.
   Thanks; I'll drop your name when I eMail him!

   Be Well!

                M.T.Marfield:.
                   3-29-07

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

You mean the Desert Marksmen Range on Angeles Forst Hiway?
Well then Yep that is Acton.
I'm about 2 1/2 miles south of the McDonald's at Crown Valley Rd.
I shoot with the Cowboy bunch at Desert Marksmen.

[Flint]

The original 44Colt and 44 Remington were basically identical, they were both 45 cal heel type bullets.  The 44Colt as produced today has a .429 bullet inside the case, and is just .06 shorter than the 44 Special, but has a slightly smaller rim.  The 44 Remington was never made in .429 caliber, and remains a 45 caliber heel type bullet.

An antique Colt 44 will require a black powder loaded heel type bullet.  Modern production (reproduction) guns use 429 bullets, and function very well with 44Colt or 44Russian ammo.  A 44Special can use all 3, and a 44Magnum can use all 4.

[Books OToole]

Mean while back at the ranch:

I refered to Remington Handguns by Karr & Karr.  They state that .44 Colt will not chamber in an 1875 Remington chambered for .44 Remington Center fire.  Apparently the .44 Remington Center Fire is a very slightly smaller diameter.


Books

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings, Halfway Creek!

   Well! I'm a member of DM, too. I decided to join after the shooting areas were closed. I'll have to make myself available the next time that a CowBoy shoot is scheduled. I've never been to one, and this may be fun.
   I contacted Bernie, and he's offered to send me some sample bullets; I believe that they'll work. If I buy his mould, I may even take my Evans Carbine out of mothballs! I'll let you know if I do, so we can see how it shoots.

   Thanks Again & Be Well!

              M.T.Marfield:.
                3-30-07

[Books OToole]

  Modern production (reproduction) guns use 429 bullets, and function very well with 44Colt or 44Russian ammo.  A 44Special can use all 3, and a 44Magnum can use all 4.

That's what I'm looking for.  But apparently the original .44 Remington Center fire, is just a little smaller.

Thanks;

Books

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

MTM,
Cowboy shoots at DM are third Sunday of each month. Next one will be the 15th of April. Hope to see you there. I'll be the guy what looks like my Avatar.

I used to own an Evans, Wyatt Emp wanted it back so I traded it back, for a Winchester. That old Evans shot really well. I used 44 Mag cases bevelled the bases and the 44 Colt hollowbase bullet that Dixie sells the mould for. I used some .431 Bear Creek Moly's too.
Both were a tad or more short, so I had to drop the frontend down to lever it to work smoothly, but once I stoned the innards she worked great. 

[French Jack]

Actually the Remington conversions were chambered for three distinctly different cartridges:  The .46 rimfire which was the earliest in 1868, made up on the NMA with a 5 shot cylinder.  The .44 Centerfire Martin, which had a 6 shot cylinder, and the .45 caliber centerfire cartridge which also had a 6 shot cylinder.  Dimensions were different for all of these.  These are the offerings of the factory.  I am sure that aftermarket or blacksmith conversions may have utilized different cartridges in some instances.

It is also the MARTIN -- not Marlin cartridge.  It is not the same as the .44 Colt, as the date was 1869, and Colt had not gotten past the Theur Conversions at that time.  When the 1875 was brought out, it utilized the .44 WCF and .45 Colt. 

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

FJ,
The Armory 44 Chambering would chamber the 44 Martin, the 44 S & W Russian, and the 44 Remington. The 46 RF chambering also accepted the 44 RF. This come from pages 61 and 62 in Bruce McDowell's book, and I have found also that the 46 RF also chambers 44 Rem./Colt C.F.

The longer 46 Rf carbine cartridge was used in the 46 R.F. was also used in the 46 R.F.factory and non factory conversions.

I have An Armory 46 RF conversion (later converted to C.F.) here that I'm making a recoil plate for and the cylinder will chamber 44 Rem/Colt C.F. and 44 Rem. Mag brass.(the latter being almost a perfect fit due to the larger Rim dia. I believe it to be the same Dia as the old 46 RF, if not Dead on, then mightily close). The 44 Rem/Colt (44 Colt brass)chambers fine and doesn't wobble in the chamber, but the rim dia is smaller.

The first 1873 Remingtons were chambered in the 44 Rem/Colt C.F.

My Armory conversion in 44 Rem. is s/n between the two pictured on page 63 of McDowell's book. Mine is of the type of the top picture.

[Fox Creek Kid]

FWIW, production of the Martin primed .44 cartridges was terminated in December of 1871 by the gov't.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Mc Dowell states in his book that the 44 Remington and 44 Colt were developed in 1870-1871, And that There are boxes of 44 Remington/Colt Frankford Arsenal, marked 1871. He states in all likelihood, there were 44 Rem/Colt conversions in the hands of the Army before that April 1871 date.

This may be the cause of the demise of the 44 Martin.

[Fox Creek Kid]

This may be the cause of the demise of the 44 Martin.

Nope. The cause was a high failure rate.