.44 Remington centerfire

[Dirty Doc]

  The44 Uberti Remington 1858 conversion uses 45 Colt cartridges. Is the bore of the 1875 Remington in 44 Rem. the same bore dimensions as the 1858? IF SO, could a 44 Remington Cylinder be re-chambered for the 45 Colt cartridge? I have 150 smokeless 44 Rem cartridges coming from CAD , a company specializing in obsolete cartridges. They use 4 gr of Bullseye instead of BP. I can order lead from them but can't find dies or instructions on a heeled reloading setup. It would be MUCH easier if the cylinder were re-chambered, Where would I find info on the barrel dimensions, The cylinder dimensions are such that this re-chambering is feasible. Any help appreciated. Dorty Doc

[Four Eyes Henry]

Don't make the mistake of comparing originals with replica's....
Replica's are built for (more or less) commercial ammo and for originals you have to be creative sometimes...

[Professor Marvel]

The44 Uberti Remington 1858 conversion uses 45 Colt cartridges. Is the bore of the 1875 Remington in 44 Rem. the same bore dimensions as the 1858? IF SO, could a 44 Remington Cylinder be re-chambered for the 45 Colt cartridge? I have 150 smokeless 44 Rem cartridges coming from CAD , a company specializing in obsolete cartridges. They use 4 gr of Bullseye instead of BP. I can order lead from them but can't find dies or instructions on a heeled reloading setup. It would be MUCH easier if the cylinder were re-chambered, Where would I find info on the barrel dimensions, The cylinder dimensions are such that this re-chambering is feasible. Any help appreciated. Dorty Doc

Greetings My Good Doc -
your post is a little confusing -
I see you have already ordered "150 smokeless 44 Rem cartridges coming from CAD"
can you post a link to those?
also, what do you intend to shoot them out of, you mentioned both
    "Uberti Remington 1858 conversion"
and
    "1875 Remington in 44 Rem"

more details will help us help you :-)
best regards
yhs
prof marvel

[Tuolumne Lawman]

The first 1858 conversions were 5 shot in .46 "French" rimfire.  Remington paid royalties to S&W to be able to do it.  They were predominantly for the Army.  After that, they made them in .44 Martin.  Generally the .44 Martin was interchangeable.  The .44 Remington and Colt labeled cartridges were mostly interchangeable.  Sometimes batches run for Remington or Colt would not interchange one for the other, but they were nominally the same. Early 1875s were chambered in .44 Martin/Remington.  McDowell covers it well in his book, as does Venturino in his.

[Dirty Doc]

  I found an original 1975 in 44REMc.f.. I spent months trying to figger how to shoot it. Re-chambering to 45 Colt would mess with a VALUABLE original and bore needs to be slugged to determine choices. In CAS, I use Uberti 1858s with R&D 45 Colt cylinders; Faster to switch cylinders than to load them. With help, I found GAD Custom Cartridges and Old West Bullet Moulds. If you have an original, contact the gentlemen listed below and forget about alterations. Roll yer own. Dirty Doc

   From my  SASS thread "I Had a nice technical talk with Bernie at Old West Bullet Moulds. He's sending me a box of cartridges made on his equipment with his brass, lead and Trailboss or Clays (I forget which, but these are the 2 powders I use for everything). If these test loads drop in, far and hit the inside of the barn I will then order the needed supplies to roll my own. If they do NOT, I will polish the chambers or SLIGHTLY relieve them if too tight for 44REMc.f.. I got a wealth of information from Bernie https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/ and from bernold at GAD  Custom Cartridges http://gadcustomcartridges.com/ , from which I have 3 boxes of different weight bullets using BULLSEYE. powder. I will know after Christmas vacation. MERRY CHRISTMAS! DOC"

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Doc,

You should be able to make 44 Remington from 44 Colt.
Here is what I have for the 44 Remington.

AntiqueSledMan

[The Pathfinder]

Looking at those case dimensions, it's easy to see why a 44 Colt wouldn't chamber in a 44 Rem 1875. And while you might find the occasional 1875 with 'generous' chambers that would allow the Colt in, you would almost have to wonder how many of those were 'helped' by reaming out the chambers ever so slightly as the supply of the Colt cartridges became easier to find than the Remington ones.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Pathfinder,

I think all the confusion comes from the .44 Martin, which is the same as the .44 Colt.
Arsenal loaded ammo says for the Colt & Remington Revolvers, they should have said for the Colt & Remington Conversion Revolvers.
I load the .44 Colt Original for my 1858 Howell Conversion with 200 gr. .451 Diameter Heeled Bullets.

The .44 Remington CF didn't show up until the 1875's came out, this I believe is the only revolver chambered for .44 Remington CF.
I didn't post earlier, but I have a bullet diameter of .447" listed.

I'm not an expert on this, but this is how I see it.

AntiqueSledMan

[The Pathfinder]

AntiqueSledMan,

     I think you're probably right, or as right as we'll ever figure out a hundred plus years too late.  I also got into loading the original 44 Colt, had John Gren do an 1860 Army conversion to use the original cartridge back in 1990 or so. Used a Rapine 210 grain mold for the 44 Colt heel base, turned out to be too long for the cylinder unless I cut the brass down to 44 Russian length. The first few I had to run the nose over a file to flat point it so the cylinder would turn, not something I would ever recommend anyone else doing to loaded ammo. Apparently I survived it without any unexpected detonations, won't even speculate if someone else would, so DON'T anyone try. The old cartridge was a hoot to shoot, but I can honestly say the new version out of the new Uberti Richards are a whole lot easier to put together. Must be getting lazy since I became a senior citizen.

[Dirty Doc]

Hello Doc,

You should be able to make 44 Remington from 44 Colt.
Here is what I have for the 44 Remington.

AntiqueSledMan

Thanks ASM, I can't ream our to 45Colt without ruining value, but I will try polishing the chamber throats to a high shine and try some of OWBM's 44 Colts for size. If they din't fit, I will sell them and order more of their 44REMcf. They shoot fine, but 9 inches high due to filed front sight by original owner. Thanks, Doc

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Doc,

A 44 Special, or 44 Mag would be the same diameter case as the 44 Colt.
CH4D has the 44 Remington Revolver listed at $114.11 for a 3 die set.
A sizing die alone is listed at $69.56. I think that would be the way to go.
Simply size the Starline 44 Colt case to fit the revolver.
Maybe one could get a special order carbide sizing die from Lee.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

CH4D is my go-to source for dies for calibres that are out-of-the-ordinary. Also for specific tools for case conversions.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Pathfibder,

Digging through some stuff I stumbled across this in Remington's 1933 ammo listing.

AntiqueSledMan.

[The Pathfinder]

ASM, I actually have a full box of 'em in my collection. Probably what got me interested in the conversions in the first place.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Pathfinder,

It's easy to see how this cartridge was missed in so many books,
the only place I could find it was in the 1877 Remington Catalog
on page 41, priced at $18/1000. Primed cases were $15/1000.
See attached for good reading.

http://cartridgecollectors.org/ammunition-catalogs

Doc,

Larry Pottefield made some 44 S&W American from 41 Mag cases,
Maybe the same could be done for 44 Remington?



AntiqueSledMan

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here is my favorite case dimension chart. It is set on pistol ammo, but scroll to the bottom to go to other charts;

http://www.cartridge-corner.com/revolver.htm

P.S: the only absent dimension is for rim thickness!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Maybe the 220 Swift would make a good parent case.
Midway has them on sale right now.

AntiqueSledMan

[The Pathfinder]

Probably as close as you're going to get.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Don't fuss about case differences of a few measly thou' or so. It is the base diameter that is the important one. The donor case can be a bit smaller and get blown out, If it a bit over some trimming or swaging might do it WITHIN REASON.

Also remember that cutting a rifle case down leaves you with some pretty thick walls. Best to find another pistol case as feed stock.

here is the classic reference;  https://www.amazon.ca/Home-Guide-Cartridge-Conversions/dp/0882270052

Here is another, but I've not read it; https://www.amazon.com/Handloaders-Manual-Cartridge-Conversions/dp/0883171368

MY Recommendation is to start with the .44 Colt! You might not have to change anything to make some effective noise.

[tucumcari_kid]

This is a bit late ... but ...  on my S&W HWY Patrolman, it is VERY picky about case diameters.  Lee make undersized resizing dies, which I had NEVER heard of until a couple of weeks ago.  If your parent brass is a bit over, you might want to look into that.  Also besides polishing the chambers, which I would consider as well, even though antique and what not ... you might consider polishing or even smoothing the brass slightly.  You might consider running the brass with the hand drill in some 1200 grit wet o' dry.  That might get you some thousandths back.  If it is modern brass and you're loading at 1870 BP pressures you should be good.  Polishing not resizing

Mike