What kind of Army 1860?

[Henry4440]

I have a problem with my new Colt Army 1860 percussion.
I didn't know if it is a Pietta or a Uberti or another italian production.
There is no Name.On the bottom of the barrel stands only: Made in Italy.
I want to know it , because i want to buy a R&D Cart. Conv. Engraved for 1860 Uberti 45LC.
Any suggestions?

[Flint]

The Pietta logo was (still is?) FP in a triangle.  The old Uberti logo looked like a small fan or propeller.  They may be mixed among the proof marks.  If there is a rectangular box with two letters in it, that is a date code, which would tell you how old the gun is, giving a hint as to who was making 1860 Armies at the time, as not all the makers are still in business.

Website with the date codes for Italian guns:   http://www.berettaweb.com/DL1.htm

[Long Johns Wolf]

There should be manufacturer's marks/symbols on the pistol, like the muzzle view with a centered U (Uberti), FAP in a diamond (Pietta), intermingled DGG (Armi san Paolo/Euroarms), ASM (Armi san Marco).
Bootsie

[Henry4440]

Here is a pic.

AE=1979
Is that the  old Uberti logo?

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Not Uberti, nor Euroarms/Armi San Paolo, nor Pietta. Not Armi San Marco either. I have never seen that marking before.
Looks like two W'stacked with a star over them?? least that what I can make out from the picture. None of my info shows that mark.

[Doc O]

Henry4440 - At lease you have some makers marks. I have a pair of '72s that other than the serial no#s there is only EMF SA on one under the barrel and the other has NAVY ARMS under the barrel. Nothing else any where on either one. Good luck.

[Henry4440]

Not Uberti, nor Euroarms/Armi San Paolo, nor Pietta. Not Armi San Marco either. I have never seen that marking before.
Looks like two W'stacked with a star over them?? least that what I can make out from the picture. None of my info shows that mark.

Here is better pic

[Long Johns Wolf]

Looks to me like the old Frankonia mark.
Bootsie

[Henry4440]

Looks to me like the old Frankonia mark.
Bootsie

Yip, you are right.Just have a call to Frankonia.It's their old mark.But the guy couldn't tell if it is a Uberti or Pietta or from another company.Have to wait till 12am.Than the 'man of knowledge' starts his shift.
Thanks a lot

[Long Johns Wolf]

Assuming the proof mark is AE, i. e. 79, or AF, i. e. 80 at that time HEGE was exclusive distributor from Uberti but Frankonia was just an importer that should not have access to Uberti guns. What was available during the late 70s apart from Uberti? ASM and ASP if I recall rightly. Would be interesting to learn what the guy in the know at Frankonia has to say abaut the heritage of your pistol.
Bootsie

[Henry4440]

It is an Euroarms Army 1860.That's what they get from Italy around '79 & '80.Today they get most Pietta.
So no R&D Cart. Conv. Engraved for 1860 Uberti 45LC.

[Buffalo Creek Law Dog]

Here is better pic

I have a 1861 Navy .36 cal with the first three exact same markings as yours.  On the barrel it says "Colt 1861 Navy .36 Cal"  and also on the barrel "Safari Arms Ltd Toronto, Ontario"

Right underneath the barrel assembly below the loading lever just above the serial # is the diamond with the FAP.

Hope this helps.

[Major 2]

It is an Euroarms Army 1860.That's what they get from Italy around '79 & '80.Today they get most Pietta.
So no R&D Cart. Conv. Engraved for 1860 Uberti 45LC.

` "So no R&D Cart. Conv. Engraved for 1860 Uberti 45LC"

I would not say that    the Uberti R&D should work with some minor adjustment, it's the Pietta that is the odd duck out needing a different Cyl.

[Henry4440]

the Uberti R&D should work with some minor adjustment, it's the Pietta that is the odd duck out needing a different Cyl.

What did you mean with ' some minor adjustment'?The guy at Frankonia said, that the Uberti cylinder is a littel bit longer.I didn't own a Uberti 1860, so i cannot say if this is correct.
Did anyone of you has a R&D Cart. Conv. Engraved for 1860 Uberti 45LC?

[Flint]

The "AE" in a box is a date code, showing the revolver was manufactured in 1979.  The WW is the maker, Frankonia, someone mentioned, but they apparently subbed the manufacture out, so it might or might not be an Uberti.

[Flint]

Didn't notice the question, yes, I have an R&D drop-in 45 cyl for my Uberti 1860.  Do you need dimensions?

[Henry4440]

Didn't notice the question, yes, I have an R&D drop-in 45 cyl for my Uberti 1860.  Do you need dimensions?

THAT WOULD BE GREAT!

[Major 2]

So do I ... it dropped right in but it needed just a little Adj. to the timing to fit my Second Generation BP Colt.... The  2ND Gen's used a frame made in the old Iver Johnson works. Works slicker than ......
 
I know of a least one Uberti R&D that was used in a Euroarms 1860, it dropped in but also need a tad of adj.

The Pietta Cyl was the longer one.

I understand your reluctance , at $240 US dollars it's a gamble if it's not going to fit.
Once you have the dimensions, you will know for sure.

By the way, the Cyl. are length sensitive, I have some 45 reloads that won't allow the cyl to turn.
Black Hills LC's that are fine.
However, Blackhills Schofield 200 grain are the most accrate, through it .

[Dusty Morningwood]

Midway is having a sale on R&D conversion cylinders.  Got a flyer today.  Some as low as $179.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I do not know about the R & D Uberti Colt cylinders fitting Euroarms. If i had to quess with my $200.00 I'd guess yes.

I DO know that the Uberti Kirst and the Uberti R&D fit Euroarms 58 Remingtons, been there and done that.

I also hand fit a Kirst Pietta cylinder to fit Uberti and Euroarms 58 Remingtons. had to shave some off the cylinder face (to match Kirst Uberti cylinder length). but after that it dropped into an Uberti Revolving carbine and into 4 Euroarms 58 Remy's. Aligned and worked fine.