Indian police?

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy,

I'm wondering what y'all know about these groups.
Looking on the old west badges, there seem to be a lot of them for Indian Police.. different tribes and locations.  Were they Indians watching other indians?  Whites?
I know the Indian Agent was often a corrupt government appointee.

Gracias,

[St. George]

Indian Police badges are rife within the collecting community - alas - most are not only fakes, but artfully-thought-out ones, at that - with many being struck in the 1960's and now having some age on them that wasn't brought on by a bath in Clorox...

Any "real" old Tribal Police badges that I've seen were either in museums or still with the families.

The Indian Police were much like they are today - employees of the Reservation (read Government) - and charged with keeping some form of order.
Today - the Reservations still have their Tribal police - with jurisdiction on their Reservation lands, while the Bureau of Indian Affairs also has a Law Enforcement section.
Being Federal lands - the FBI has overall jurisdiction and authority.

Did it work?

Sometimes.

Like any policing agency of the time - there were scores to settle and agendas to be followed, yet these men did as good a job as they were allowed to do and that says something.

Scouts Out!

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Gracias, St. George.

Seems to me that a half-breed former scout persona would be an injun cop.  Just looking for more persona options, built on previous ones.  I like my scout look, but by the turn of the century, most of the tribes had been "civilized."

Any idea what replica badges are based on authentic ones.  What tribes, especially SW had a more organized system?
Adios,

[St. George]

I'm away from my reference library right now, but I'll look when I get home.

There are authentic badges pictured in the Time-Life series on "The Old West" - in the ""Lawmen" volume.
If I remember correctly - there's an original or two pictured there that'll do as a start.

My other references are somewhat "eclectic".

All of the reservations had Tribal Police - but they were often poorly paid and equipped so the more "generic" badge was used most often.
Look to the very plain shield-type as the model.

Most of the more "formal" badges post-date the 1890's.

If it helps - your calibers would be those of the "Government" variety, since that's who the supplier was.
Your equipment would be similar to that used by the Indian Scout - there being a huge surplus of military gear available.

Good Luck.

Scouts Out!

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Apprecaite the help.
I was planning on using a cavalry pistol and an antiqued 66, but probably a 97 as well.  That's the end of the century deal.  I like my 97 and I'm having to figure out accurate ways to use it.

Adios,

[Scattered Thumbs]

Howdy Big Hext!

I've got good and/or bad news.

You need more guns!

I saw a vintage photo of a group of indian police fellows...And they were all armed with nickel plated 1875 Remington revolvers which I believe were part of the small batch Remington produced in .45 S&W.

PS I saw the picture in a copie of "Guns & Ammo" from the midle 90s I think( I can look it up and see which one exactly if you want), in an article about the cartridge Remington revolvers.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

You mean.. I'd have to *gasp* buy another gun.. a nickel plated 75?  The horror!!

[St. George]

In 1883, Remington supplied approximately 1300 nickle-plated revolvers to the Indian Police.
Nothing is indicated in the Contract about particular markings, if any - but they were trying to cash in on Colt's Government Contracts and referred to the revolver as the "Model Furnished Interior Department for Indian Police".
The caliber was .45 Long Colt.

Often - Remington-Keene rifles are seen - stamped "U.S.I.D", as are Whitney-Kennedys and Winchesters.

The badge seen in most photographs is a "UP-Shield"-shaped style.

There was also an interlocking belt plate - circular, with a wreath - bearing the word "Police" in the center.

There wore uniforms very similar to the Army blue uniform of the day - perfectly understandable, since there'd've been thousands left from the Civil War, and having your law enforcers readily identifiable was desireable.
The hat looked most like the Campaign hat of the 1880's - but most likely in a dark blue.
It resembles the GAR Hat from the GAR reunions.

Hopefully - I'll have more on the badges later.

For your Impression - keep in mind that these guys were obviously Indians - no beards - no "size" beyond the barrel chests that some gained as they aged.


Vaya...

Scouts Out!

[Scattered Thumbs]

You mean.. I'd have to *gasp* buy another gun.. a nickel plated 75?  The horror!!

Yup! That's exactly what I mean 

Read up what St. George wrote.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

I can't do nothing about my barrel shape.. it is what it is..
As for the beard, it comes and goes, but a halfbreed could have a bit of a shadow.  My maternal grandfather never could grow a decent mustache or beard, the reason was often given as "that injun blood"  Several of my grandparents were ruputed to have had close indian ancestors, but because of the stigma that existed in the first half of the last century, they were unwilling to admit or discuss it.  It is a shame that we have lost that part of our family history and heritage. 
Obviously, I got painted by the Black Irish blood in the family, or it may even be Nordic.. in fact, our root surname means bearded..  OK. TMI, the ramble is over. 

Adios,

[Scattered Thumbs]

Howdy Big Hext,

Sent you an email with the afore mentioned Guns & Ammo article.

[St. George]

Hext,

I'm back from Fort Bragg and have looked at a part of my references.

If you have access to a copy of "Firearms of the American West 1866 - 1894" - by Garavaglia and Worman - you'll see two great photos of Indian Police on pages 198 and 300.

Page 198 shows Black Coyote - an Arapahoe, while page 300 features two Dakota Indian Policemen - Red Tomahawk and Eagle Man.

Scouts Out!

[Forty Rod]

C'mon, Hext.  Brace up, man, don't wimp out.  You can do it.  Force yourself.  Buy another gun.

You don't want folks to think you're a pansy, do you?

[Forty Rod]

Uh, I don't want to be contentious, but my sources don't show any Remington '75 or '90 being produced in any caliber except .45 remington center fire, or .44-40.

.45 Colt isn't shown at all, the cylinder being just a hair too short.

I could be wrong...I was once before. 

[Scattered Thumbs]

Uh, I don't want to be contentious, but my sources don't show any Remington '75 or '90 being produced in any caliber except .45 remington center fire, or .44-40.

.45 Colt isn't shown at all, the cylinder being just a hair too short.

I could be wrong...I was once before. 

I share your opinion, The Remingtons for the Indian Police were described as "in .45 Government" wich at the time I think it was the .45 S&W.

PS I think it's .44 Remington certer fire you meant.

[Forty Rod]

Okay, twice.  Thumbs is right, I did mean .44 rem. cf. and .44-40.

Still have to find some evidence of .45 anything in the '75 or '90 models.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

According to what I've seen/read, they did make some .45's, just not too many...........Buck

[St. George]

According to "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms" - the caliber is quoted:

"Caliber .45 Government listed in early Remington catalogs (actually .45 Colt), but specimens scarce and would be worth premium; buyer should exercise caution on this latter caliber."

According to Wilson's "Price Guide to Gun Collecting" - the quote reads:
"Model 1875 Army Revolver,
.44 centerfire, later in .44-40 and .45 Long Colt, 7 1/2", 5 3/4" Barrels bring Premium with web below Barrel."

Government purchase figures for U.S.I.D. are as indicated in my earlier post.

No mention of the Model 1890 - since the Government only bought the Model 1875.

There's more - but these are readily available references.

Scouts out!

[Forty Rod]

Concession speech at 11:00.

Sure can learn a lot here.

Sad fact is, Flayderman is one of my "go to" resources.  I just didn't read it carefully.

Thanks.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

That's okay, Forty. Just one of the things that actually stuck up top! ...............Buck