PC late 1870's early 1880's shirts

[Delmonico]

OK, I'm going to add another shirt from picture 12638 on the collection.  Do go to the information on this picture, the date is 1901 and a couple years past the NCOWS cut off date, but this shirt is worth looking at.  Ned Dunlap, ranch foremad is about to march in a parade so that may have some affect on they whys of this shirt.  Looks Hollywood, but it is 2 years before the first Western Movie will be made in New Jersy.



So was the shirt bought? Was it copied from one he had seen or did he just decide to be a fashion designer and come up with it?  He did have a collage education even if it was in Ag.   Pehaps a style popular with early rodeo riders?  Any ideas, a really neat shirt no matter what.

[Silver Creek Slim]

I like this picture better. 



Slim

[Dr. Bob]

Golly!  I wonder if this is the 1st "button down" shirt?   

[gw]

Looks like these are maybe the first Western models of the first Old West Fashion Show to me. ;   Wonder why they wore the same gitup?

[Delmonico]

Because both are Ned Dunlap, one of them is when he has the wig he wore in the Old Settlers Parade.  The date of both are 1901 and most likely the same day.  But the shirt does not really look brand new, looks like it's been wasahed and worn a few times. 

That buttoned down collar is a bit unusual, it is a really awsome looking shirt though.  It makes me wonder where it came from.

[French Jack]

An invaluable book on the subject of men's shirts is :  "Thoughts on Men's Shirts In America 1750 -1900", by William L. Brown III.
Both photos of original shirts and patterns for them are included.  There is one thing that strikes your eye, the button holes are BOTH Vertical and Horizontal.  There is no particular rhyme or reason.  From the earliest to latest, you can not say that all were one way or another.  Quite a lot of good primary source information, as the original shirts are pictured with descriptions and patterns. 
If someone were wanting to have a shirt made or copied, this would be the place to get a pattern and information on sewing and materials.

Take a look at it, it's worth the trouble.

[Delmonico]

I borrowed a copy a few years ago, I do need to get a copy. 

One thing that may make sense to anyone who has sewn, the way one sews the button hole may have a lot to do with what feels right to you.  I sew most of my button holes with the TV on either a movie or The History Channel.  The shirt lays better in my lap to do the vertical.   Of course a factory would most likely demand them a certain way, most likely the bosses preferance.

[gospel micah]

HOWDY i have found that shirt in the reproduction of sears roebucks  catalogue no. 110 fall 1900 i got the book at a yard sale a few weeks ago. If you find that book take a look its in there.

[Joe LeFors]

I have a copy of the 1902 Sears catalogue reprint.  It's in there, too, on page 966.  The catalogue refers to them as  "Firemen's Shirts" made up in "regulation firemen's syle" and they sell for $3.00 each, and, "If by mail, postage extra, each, 26 cents."

JLeF   

[Silver Creek Slim]

Now, ya got me looking at Ned's shirt again. On page 969 of my 1908 Sears Catalog is:


Slim

[Deadeye Don]

So we can agree that the "firemans" shirt is post 1900 then?? or not?   By the way Ned looks alot like GW dont you all think?

[Silver Creek Slim]

The Firemen's shirts, aka the bib shirt, was worn by the Zouaves in the Civil War. General Custer favored that style of shirt also. They were used as a dress shirt of volunteer firemen before the Mexican War.

Slim

[Delmonico]

If you go to the untouched up tintype, Billy the Kid seems to have one on in the famous picture of him.





It has what may be a dragon embroidered on it, similar to a shirt Wah offered a few years ago.

I've not done a lot of research on them beyond when they apear in early photo's of fire companies, but I have heard they were worn by some elite Austrian Cav units in the Napoleonic Wars.  But there are enough photos out there if one searchs to leave no doubt as to them being period correct.  Bought a book on Soldier life in the Civil War a few weeks ago, it has a picture taken in early 1861 of 3 guys from a Texas unit all wearing a bib/fireman's/shield/Cavalry shirts.  When I get my computor back up at home I'll scan it and post it.

[Deadeye Don]

Poor Billy.  If only he had known how much interest people would have in him a long time after his death he would have had more pictures taken of himself.

[River City John]

I don't know about the dragon design, but they also look like some of the stylized exotic birds depicted in some oriental art. Peacocks, etc. or some other exotic bird with a long neck and ample, full plumage to the tail.

[Judge Roy Bean]

I thought all you Navy and Marines would have seen it is a fouled anchor, acording to Bob Bose Bell's book on Billy The Kid.

[River City John]

I thought all you Navy and Marines would have seen it is a fouled anchor, acording to Bob Bose Bell's book on Billy The Kid.

Sure don't see that.

[Delmonico]

If he really would have cared, he would have taken off that sweater and vest and let us see what it was for sure.

[Black Powder]

Billy doesn't strike me as having cared about very much, so this picture is right in line with his character.

BP

[Fox Creek Kid]

Poor Billy.  If only he had known how much interest people would have in him a long time after his death he would have had more pictures taken of himself.

There is, according to some historians. 

http://www.angelfire.com/nm/boybanditking/pageStinkingSprings.html