58 Remington, R&D Conversion and stuck cylinder Pin - HELP

[Flinch Morningwood]

Okay...Been looking forward to taking my new conversion cylinder to the range and trying it out.  I took some of my 30 grain (FF) .45 Colt loads with the BIG LUBE PRS 250 bullets.   Pistol is well lubed with Ballistol and I lightly lapped the front and back of the cylinder on a hard, black arkansas stone - Just enough to ensure it was flat.

SO I shoot the first five..."not too bad" I thinks to me self...Then the brass (Remington 45 LC reloads) won't dump out of the cylinder so I push them out with a stick.  (BTW - they dropped in when loading as sweet as you please) I shoot 2 of the second 5 and the cylinder locks up.  I can get it to turn with my hand so I shoot one more...cylinder won't barely turn and I can't get the cylinder pin out.  I finally get the cylider pin out and dump the cylinder...fired bullet are very snug again.  I clean the thing up some and try once more...same thing...two shots and lock up...and when I take the cylinder out,  the peice that pushes up from the back of the frame (to advance the cylinder when cocking) is a little chewed up...I stopped there.  I unloaded the gun and put it back together and it it worked just fine.

Also, (1) I have the short barrels and loading levers from VTI, if it makes and difference and (2) I never had this problem with cap and ball but only shot 23 grains with that...

Am I doing something wrong?  Is the gun off time?  I have seen other people use these with no problems at all.  Beleive it or not, I am fairly frustrated after spending what I did on the cylinder (and having ordered another last week)....

Any advice would be greatly appreciated....Thanks!

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

That piece that roates the cylinder is called the hand and you are extremely lucky you didn't break it.

I would check clearances at the breech and pawl area.

Does your cylinder have any forward/backward movement at all?

Also I would polish the Cylinder Pin.

But it sounds like your brass may be backing out of the cylinder. Also your primers may be backing out of the brass. Either can cause a lockup pronto. (increases the width of the headspace and thus, on an R&D, the overall length.
You don't state which Repro you have, Pietta, Uberti or Euroarms? Also is the R & D the right one for your mfr?  Uberti models will fit Uberti and Euroarms, Pietta's will only fit Pietta's.

Hope this helps.

I NEVER use any petroleum based lubes, only Olive oil, and Bore Butter type lubes.

One other thing, when you stoned the Pawl area and the Cylinder face, did you think to chamfer the cylinder pin hole??? The slightest bur there will cause problems.

[Flinch Morningwood]

It is a Pietta and I ordered the one for Pietta from Taylors...I have heard they will help fit the cylinder if I send the whole thing to them...Is that true or an urban legend??

I will try and chamfer the cylinder pin hole as well...

[sundance44`s]

New Remmies are tight , and more prone to stick with the fouling , something ya might try is a grease cookie under the bullet ..also I load with 3f instead of the 2f powders ...burns a little quicker with the shorter barrel of the pistols ...quicker burns are a help a little cleaner burn ...Also the problem with the emptys being stuck in the cylinder after fired ...I cured that on mine by useing a Lee neck crimp Die ... the crimp die does make a difference .

[Papa Bear]

You need more lube! 

Not on the bullet but on the cylinder pin.  Remingtons tend to foul in this area causing the problems that you have.  Use a few drops of Ballistol or what ever you are using after each stage on the pin and rotate.  You will be amazed how freely the cylinder will turn.

Another problem could be that the clearence between the front of the cylinder and the bottom of the frame is too close and the heat from useing BP will expand the cylinder and will bind against each other.  A little fileing on the frame should take care of this problem. 

Like all things new it take some use to get things working properly.     

[sundance44`s]

Thats the main thing ...find what works for you ...and stick to it ...Once ya do ain`t nothing like it ..One thing for sure it will get easyer .

[Cincinnati Slim]

Howdy,

Measure the overall length of the R&D versus the factory percussion cylinder. I'll bet it's .002-.004 longer than the original. Past Italian percussion revolvers had really generous barrel-cylinder gaps so R&D made 'em a little longer to close that up. Newer Italian sixguns, especially Pietta, are being made to tighter tolerances and the barrel-cylinder gaps are not as big as they were in the past. If you dont have a good caliper, (Midway has a Franklin Aresenal electronic caliper on sale now reeel cheep ! ), use feeler gaugees to measure your barrel-cylinder gap with the Remmie on half-cock. I'm betting you'll find a much smaller gap with the R&D cylinder. You could stone off some material to make the R&D match or take some off the rear of the barrel. Cap and ball sixguns need more gap than cartridge guns but too much gap on a Remmie will blow fouling into the cylinder pin. They lack a gas bushing so it's a fact of life. Lot's of Balistol on the cylinder pin really helps.

If you are reloading full length resize your cases and use the Lee factory crimp die with a good solid crimp.
R&D chambers are typically very tight compaired to a lot of factory .45 Colt chambers.

Happy Trails,,

Cincinnati Slim

[Flinch Morningwood]

Thanks for the input!

I measured both the old C&B cylinder and the new conversion and the both came in at 2.018...I then measured the cylinder pin hole on both and they were the same as well.  I polished the cylinder pin, the front and back of the cylinder and the two spots where the cylinder rubs on the frame.

Putting the old cylinder on the gun, it spun pretty freely at half cock where the conversion did not spin quite as free.  Also, the conversion spun more freely on my other 1858 AND there is a slight groove around the problem guns cylinder pin where the front of the cylinder meets the frame.

The above leads me to think that either (a) the new cylinder needs a slight deburring at the leading cylinder pin hole and a polish on the inside of the cylinder pin hole or(b) the cylinder pin is not completely straight.

I am correcting (a) and ordering a new cylinder pin...then back to the range.  I will wipe and lube the pin between firings and see how it goes...

This all might be a function of the close tolerences put in place when the gunsmith installed the 5 1/2 barrel.

I have to admit, as frustrating as this can be, it's still pretty fun working through the steps...

Thanks again for the input...any other comments still welcome.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

The ring on the cylinder pin is from firing the gun, Gas and bp burned the ring in the pin it is natural in the Remy's. Are the wear areas on the frame? or on the Cylinder? if on the frame releave the frame like the instructions tell you to do and things should be fine.

[sundance44`s]

This is true I had to relieve the frame a bit on one of my Remmies ..per instructions in the box the R&D cylinder came in ...they recomended a little fileing of the cylinder pin window on the inside of the frame ...I did and the cylinder worked flawless and with it on half cock it would spin freely ....way to tight before I made the adjustment .

[Major 2]

It is a Pietta and I ordered the one for Pietta from Taylors...I have heard they will help fit the cylinder if I send the whole thing to them...Is that true or an urban legend??

I will try and chamfer the cylinder pin hole as well...

TRUE !

[Anthracite Andy]

You need more lube! 

Not on the bullet but on the cylinder pin.  Remingtons tend to foul in this area causing the problems that you have.  Use a few drops of Ballistol or what ever you are using after each stage on the pin and rotate.  You will be amazed how freely the cylinder will turn.
   

i'm with Papa Bear.  really coat the pin, and hole in the cylinder, with lube.  i use Bore Butter, but any black powder lube, or even Crisco, will work fine.  you need to have a bunch of lube in there so fouling stays soft.

Anthracite Andy