Cimarrons Richards Transition Model

[Long Johns Wolf]

Mako - here are some comparative measurements in millimeters of replica cylinder diameters, chambered for .44 Colt, at the breech end:
ASM Colt Army 1860 Richards Conversion 1999 production: 41,1
Uberti Colt Army 1860 Richards II Conversion 2003 proof mark (!): 41,0
Uberti Colt Army 1860 Richards & Mason Conversion 2002 proof mark: 409,5
Uberti Colt M 1872 Open Top 2002 proof mark: 41,0
Bootsie

[Long Johns Wolf]

Sorry, there is a typo: cylinder diameter of the Uberti Army RM is 40,95 millimeter, of course.
Bootsie

[Mako]

Bootsie,
Thank you so very much, you're a gentleman as always.

I suspected you would report the numbers you did.  It seems that Uberti has standardized their cylinder diameters to allow them the maximum number of cartridges types and calibers.  This being the case a .44 special chambering would be the prudent choice for most because it allows the most flexibility for ammunition (.44 Colt/.44 Russian and .44 Special).   I read somewhere else that the .45 Colt chamber actually show the chamber through the cylinder stop cuts.  The cuts intersect...you actually see brass through the side of a loaded chamber.

Well I may just buy .44 Special Brass because of availability and price.  A pair of my  Open Tops are .44 Spl and a '66 rifle as well. The only question I still have is when will the .44 Specials become available?  The only place I have seen it listed is on the Buffalo Arms site and I know they don't have any recent info because they are showing the same 8" picture Cimarron has on  their site for all barrel lengths. (I just looked at the Cimarron site and now they show the .44 spl as well.)

Oh well... I guess this all just adds to the thrill of the hunt.  I guess we will all just have to wait with bated breath for the first ones to show, and who knows how they will be chambered?

It seems that Uberti has followed Armi San Marco's lead and is taking even more liberties with dimensions to allow more cartridges to be used.  I have an ASM (Traditions) 1860(1861 they called it) Richards Type 1 conversion (non-rebated) in .38 Spl and they even lengthened the cylinder to accommodate any .38 spl round. That makes them available in calibers that will guarantee a higher volume of purchase which is part of the return on investment
analysis any manufacturer has to do before producing a product.

Thanks again Bootsie, I hope I can return the favor some day.
Mako

[Long Johns Wolf]

Well Mako, there might be another route to go if you want the have one in .44 Special...
When I got seriously interested in replica conversions in 2002 they were only available in .44 Colt. Most of my European friends loaded them with .44 Russian because .44 Colt factory ammo was not available then and is not today. I was able to obtain .44 Colt starline brass from the US and started reloading...
If I recall rightly Uberti started producing conversions chambered for .44 Special only in 2004 or 2005. Manufacturing the same gun is different .44 chamberings is a major issue from a logistics point of view. So, you may have to wait a long time til Uberti will make a production run of R2's in .44 Special.
Since the R2 in .44 Colt should become availabe pretty soon in the US you may want to consider getting one of those and having the chamber lengthened to accept the longer .44 Special case (OAL of .44 Colt and .44 Special is about the same). I followed the same logic in January when I got my Uberti S&W Russian in .44 Russian caliber but wanted to shoot my trusted .44 Colt in them. Just had it rechambered. Just a thought.
Bootsie

[Mako]

Bootsie,
Thank you again for the additional information.  I'm familiar with the .44 Colt cartridge, my first Open Top in .44 caliber was chambered for .44 Colt.    I've loaded and used .44 Colt in a Model '66 rifle as well ( I have found an after market extractor for a .38 spl works better than the original extractor cut for a larger diameter rims on the .44 special case.)  As you already know the .44 Colt is .05" (1,27mm)  shorter than the .44 Spl and I struggled with a set of .44 spl/.44 mag. dies for a while.  I barely got any crimp, so I bought a set of .44 Russian dies and they turned out to be the same so I shortened both sets to use them for .44 Colt and .44 Russian.  I forgot to mention I am using them on a Dillon which needs a shorter die to clear the shell plate.

I didn't realize that Uberti had taken some liberties with the dimensions on the conversion cylinder diameters so I was prepared to use .44 Colt for my pistols and rifle.  I may do as you have suggested and ream them to .44 spl if that chamber is long in coming.  As I said in an earlier post I noticed that Buffalo Arms and now the Cimarron site is showing the .44 Spl (CA9050 8", CA9060 5 1/2").

I've wanted a pair of Richards conversions in 5" for some time now.  I handled an original conversion (I'm not sure if it was a Colt converted pistol, or performed by an independent gunsmith) with a 5 inch barrel and I was impressed with the balance and the way it looked.  I'm probably going to cut down a pair and that might be the opportune time to re-cut the throats to 11° and rechamber.

Thank you again,
Mako

[Fox Creek Kid]

Since the R2 in .44 Colt should become available pretty soon in the US...

Ein grausamer Witz für Ihre Amerikanische Freunde oder Sie sind betrunken? 

[Long Johns Wolf]

Howdy Fox Creek Kid - actually I had some beers last night after a shooting session, but that was after I wrote the comment.
Regarding availability of the R2 you may want to check with Mike Harvey once he is back from Uberti/Gardone.
Bootsie

[Big Hext]

Howdy boys,

It's been a few years, but I recall that folks would take the early .44 cylinders and have them reamed to .44 special lengths, with good results. 

Regarding the .45 Colt, I've not handled one yet, but I do have a pair of 72 OTs in .45 Schofield, there is no gap in the cylinder wall.

Good luck with them good looking pistolas...
Adios,

[The Avocado Kid]

I received a reply today from Cimarron (4/20/07) on the Richards Transition Model: Hi,

We still have not received delivery on the Richards transitions Model.  We are looking at another 60 - 90 days out. 

Thanks.

Valerie
Well,there you go,from reading the post on this forum, I have read at least four post where the above statment was quoted by various members here on this forum but here it is again by Cimarron the folks in the know,I  personally think the gun is a myth and this is just Uberti propaganda. Dusty. 

[litl rooster]

Dusty,
  I believe your right.  I am hearing other stories on the Schoefield models also.  They might be waiting for Taraus to release there.38 cal Thunderbolt first.

[Deadeye Don]

I received a reply today from Cimarron (4/20/07) on the Richards Transition Model: Hi,

We still have not received delivery on the Richards transitions Model.  We are looking at another 60 - 90 days out




60-90 days out  =  when there is a blue moon.   Dont count on it.

[litl rooster]

60-90 days out  =  when there is a blue moon.   Dont count on it.

Of course we don't have to wait till Hell freeze's over...............or do we?