Loading the .44colt round

Michael 'Deadwood' Clemons · February 16, 2007, 09:25:08 AM

I am going to order the RCBS cowboy die for the .44sp/russian. Iv heard some say that the .44colt needs a different expander die. Can the .44colt be loaded properly with the .44sp/russian die and if I need another componant, would someone please elaborate for me.
I apprecaite this very much.
Deadwood - formerly known as The Preacher

Four-Eyed Buck · February 16, 2007, 11:05:23 AM

Haven't seen the specs for it, but if it follows the precedent set for a couple of the other old Colt rounds, it should be the same dia.( .429-.430)..................Buck

Michael 'Deadwood' Clemons · February 16, 2007, 11:39:52 AM

What i was asking was bout the expander die basically. Some have said with the cowboy die for the .44sp/russian that you will still need another expander die that dont come with the .44sp/russian set to load the .44colt. I just wanna be sure what the deal is here before I order, so I can get all I need at one shot.

Thanks folks,

Deadwood -formely known as The Preacher

Montana Slim · February 16, 2007, 12:11:53 PM

I hadn't heard that before...but I believe .44 Russian Dies will work, but you need a different shellholder. Real .44 Colt brass has a smaller diameter head. I can't say for sure what specs "new" .44 Colt brass is made to.

My copy of SAMMI specs do not include .44 Colt, .44 Russian or several other old-west cartridges. Therefore, with no "standard", even voluntary such as SAMMI, there are few guarantees. Since Starline is the (only?) producer of factory .44 Colt, I'd assume the repro guns are dimensioned to work with this brass.

My .44 R-M & OT's's are Uberti repros & I shoot .44 Russian in them all.
I have Lee .44 Russian dies & would try loading a few rounds of .44 Colt (If I had brass), but this won't tell ya everything about RCBS

Seems Verturino's book on revolvers of the old west goes into some detail, but I don't have it handy.
Good Luck.

Slim

Michael 'Deadwood' Clemons · February 16, 2007, 12:29:26 PM

Montanna,,,,I 'think' the shellholder for .44Colt is a #2 in RCBS,,same as a 30-30Win.
I just dont see why,,the .44colt falling between the Russian and Special, that one would need any other expander. I could be wrong,,or actually,,the person that I got this from could be wrong,,as im only repeating this thought second hand.
Think I 'might' go Russian myself, as its a historic round, and in the Open Tops, velocity is not the chase anyways. Either and all can be loaded apx 750fps. So, the Russian will suffice plenty good as a historic round. I 'think' Russian was 1870 and Colt was 1871...or perhaps just the reverse. But, either is historic..the Special comming out after 1900 sometime. I DO wish Winchester carried the .44Colt brass because I always perfered theirs as it was softer. I know nothing about Starline at this point, it may very well be super brass.
Thanks guys,
Deadwood

Long Johns Wolf · February 17, 2007, 02:41:37 AM

As Montana Slim pointed out the only issue is the shell holder because of the smaller rim of the "new" .44 Colt case (Black Hills/Starline specs). The shell-holder for the .30-30 and .41 Mag will do the job. Enjoy the .44 Colt it is a great all around CAS load. Shooting it in all my competition guns, pistols & rifles.
Bootsie

Michael 'Deadwood' Clemons · February 17, 2007, 03:06:20 AM

Thanks folks. Will have a set of .44sp/.44russian RCBS 'cowboy' dies comming tommorrow. Gonna be checking with Starline on brass for the .44colt. Picked up a #2 RCBS shell holder last evening at Walmarts, so im about ready to go .44colt after all. Bootsie, what bullet weight do you perfer in your .44colt rounds? Ill be shootin' Cimarron/Uberti '72 Open Tops, 7 1/2 inch barrels.
Deadwood

Long Johns Wolf · February 17, 2007, 07:44:14 AM

MDC: all my .44 Colt cartridges are topped with a 200 gr bullet/.429 diameter of 16 BH. I shot the same smokeless load in all my .44 Colt cowboy guns, i. e. Euroarms 73 carbine, Uberti Henrys and AS 92 rifle and pistols (Uberti OT, ASM R1, Uberti R2, Uberti RM, Uberti SAA's).
Bootsie

Tubac · February 17, 2007, 11:08:04 AM

OK, now I'm totally confused. "The Handloader's Manual of cartrigde Conversions" has the .44 Colt using a .443 bullet, outside lubed( I guess). And you're gonna use a .429. Isn't that sort of under sized?

Tubac

Long Johns Wolf · February 17, 2007, 11:43:13 AM

Tubac: the original .44 Colt cartridge from the 1860/70/80s used outside lubed heel-typ bullets, which were actually a .45 caliber. That's why you don't need to reline the .44 C&B (replica) Remingtons Armys or Colt Armys when you do a cartridge conversion for the original .44 Colt.
The "new" .44 Colt has about the case length and the rim size of the original .44 Colt but uses an inside lubed bullet of .429 diameter (like .44 Special or .44 Mag). Black Hills are providing new smokeless factory ammo with CAS loads. Obviously the "new" .44 Colt is easy on the reloader. It has the name in common with the original .44 Colt which is kind of misleading. It is my opinion that the availability of the "new" .44 Colt is playing a major role in the increasing interest in replica factory conversions.
If my research is correct drop-in Remington conversion cylinders from Kirst and R&D are for the old outside lubed cartridge. Bob Millington's .44 Remington conversion cylinders are for the "new" .44 Colt cartridge but can be opened to accommodate cartridges of original configurations.
Replica factory conversions of Armi san Marco (out of business: Colt Army 1860 "R1") and Uberti (Colt Army 1860 R2, R+M and Open Top) have barrels with .429 bore size, i. e. they are made for use with the "new" .44 Colt cartridge.
Bootsie