Shotshell Loading with BP Substitutes

[Bead Swinger]

Hi All
I'm looking to reload 12 Ga. shotshells using Hogdon's 777.  What I have access to are plastic hulls, and the great notes in the 'Dark Arts' sublist. I've got access to an MEC Shotshell loader, and a reasonable quantity of hulls.

Question: What 777 powder volume, shot volume, and wad(s) would you recommend?  I was considering getting Fiber wads for starters, but I'm open to suggestions.

What MEC bushing(s) would you recommend to get a decent 777 load?

Please note - I've never reloaded shotshells before, so this is all new to me.

Thanks
Beadswinger

[Marshal Tac]

Beadswinger.... I shoot 777 in my plastc hulls. I shoot mostly Winchester AA smooth plastic hulls, because my gun shucks them easier.

For a load, I was not able to get a consistant powder throw with the Mec bushings, and instead, dip my powder with a set of the Lee powder dippers. ($6-7 bucks at Sportsmans or other store that carries reloading supplies)

I first size and deprime my hulls, then prime them and set them aside. Once I have the required number of hulls resized and reprimed, I use the 3.1 CC dipper to dip in a load of 2F 777. I then load them with a Winchester RED wad (or claybuster substitute) and charge them with 1 1/8th ounce of either #7.5 or #8 shot. This load is not too violent in the recoil department, but knocks down the targets with some authority and leaves a plentifull plume of smoke.

For what its worth, I shoot them out of either a Stoger coachgun or a repro 1887, to good effect. The red plastic wads do leave a ribbon of plastic in the bore, but since I clean my guns with hot water and dishsoap, I have found that a steady stream of hot water down the barrels cleans the plastic right out. I wipe them dry and follow with an oil soaked bore snake.

Good luck.

[knucklehead]

I do the same as Marshal Tac except for 3 things.
I use 13 guage fiber wads instead of the plastic wad. over powder wad, fiber wad, over shot card. dont like the plastic build up in the barrells.
using 12 gauge wads will cause the shell to bulge out and not fall out of the double barrell easy during a match.
I use the lee #4 dipper for my loads and whatever shot i have at the time.

I mix up some moose milk and spray down the barrell wait about 3 mins then run a bore snake down the barrells 2 times each.
moose milk is balistall and water mix. mix about 80-90% water with the balistall and pour in a cheap spray bottle.
I use this to clean all of my blackpowder guns and takes about 1/2 hr total cleaning time for 5 guns.

[hellgate]

Hey Knucklehead,
I would recommend a plastic over powder wad of some kind that will swell and form a better seal since a 13ga wad will not expand laterally to get an efficient gas seal. I'll bet you are losing some power. I have heard some pretty funky sounding "BP" loads due to gas blowby when folks used card & filler wads in tapered cases that swaged the wad diameter down. Some of the newer shotguns have long forcing cones and the blowby is worse in those guns compared to the old 311s made for paper hulls and fiber wads. Back when I first started reloading shotshells (mid 1960s) there was a transition from card & felt wads to plastic. The reloading guides would state that you could reduce your powder (smokeless) charges by 10% if you used a plastic gas seal or one piece wad due to the more efficient wads and still get the same velocity. If you were to load brass hulls or the thin (Federal) plastic hulls the blowby would be even worse as they have such thin walls. You might do well to go to 11ga wads for the thin walled hulls. I often cut the bottom off of one piece wads and use the gas seal part with fiber filler wads.

I've never had bulged cases fail to shuck out of the shotgun but I have also polished up my chambers a little (emory cloth around my finger and a little sanding of the chambers). Worked for me.

[knucklehead]

Hellgate,

the chambers on my double are polished. They were polished by the gunsmith in vancouver along with the rest of the action job he did on my double. I have tried the 12 gauge wads and had problems with win aa shells not shucking out of the double after lighting em off. I have use the win red wads for loads but unable to find em. so i went to the fiber wads.
my double is a eaa bounty hunter II

So far i have had no problems with these loads with knockdowns and flyers.
last sat we had to shoot at a flyer and i nailed it(the whole thing blew apart). I hit it about 20 yards down range.

I will have to try the plastic seal that you are talking about.

[hellgate]

Knucklehead,
I have bought double ended brush wads from Ballistics Products and cut the ends off to get two gas seals per wad (too much time on my hands I guess). Also I have used their "Tuff " steel shot cups which are more rigid and when slit twice will give a modified choke pattern from my CYL/CYL shotguns. That way when I need a tight pattern to blow down a big popper or or hit a going away clay bird I load a tight pattern shell in the left barrel and a wide pattern shell for the popup. That way I have, in essence, "adjustable chokes" by way of load selection. Call me a gamer but it is my way of making a chopped SXS do what I need as the situation arises (literally).

P.S.
Because 777 is more concentrated and less powder is needed the wads seat deeper in the case. With the bulkier BP I'm still above the taper of the hull so I do occasionally use card OP wads..