My New Original Remington NMA Conversions

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Here are a couple shots of my new Original Remington NMA Conversions.
This is a Gunsmith conversion. It retains the original cylinder and is just bored thru with no, or now missing, recoil shield.
It has Martial Inspector Cartouche and Sub-Inspector marks, Three of which are O.W. Ainsworth initials. One on the TG near the Screw, and one each on the flats of the grips. Yes, he inspected Remingtons as well as Colts.



This is an Armory or Factory? Conversion.



It has Martial Inspector Cartouche, and Sub-Inspector marks as well,so, as I understand it, they were both Issued guns. Any more information as to the Inspector and Sub-Inspector proofs is greatly appreciated.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Fine pistols, pard. thanks for sharing them. I love those originals. 

[sundance44`s]

Real nice there Charlie ...I never thought you`d sell your Euroarms remmies ...But i guess when the bug bites ...the originals are the only cure ...lol .
I`ve got the original parts i bought off gun broker comming ...can`t wait to hold them ..Clyinder , frame and barrel ....If i have the small parts that will fit her ...she might just smoke again . I`m hopeing a Euroarms remmie hammer will fit ....or come close enough for me to modify .

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Phil at S an S says that the Euroarms internal parts will fit the originals so the hammer should fit too. I thought there was a hammer in that bunch of parts. Get S $ S' catalong or down load it. Great bunch of folks, I ordered parts tuesday or wednesday last week and I got them today.
I'll have a couple more Euroarms someday soon. I like em and they are the same size as the originals except for the changes made to the original NMA's from the Old Model Armies. I laid one of the pair of Euro's frame on frame with the originaland the only difference was a bit of length in the new model grip length. but that was changed from the Remington_Beals frame of the old model.

[sundance44`s]

Good deal on the Euro parts fitting the original frame ...I won`t be getting a hammer , trigger or the internals ...I`ve got an extra set of screws and the internals though for my Euro , so i`ll give SxS a call for the hammer and trigger ...My dial up connection is just too slow for thier down load catalog ..Thanks

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Sundance 44's ,
Some of the Euroarms screws work and some don't The hammer spring screw doesn't fit, too big. the Hand screw does fit. and I don't know about any others. My Euroarms new hand and screw fit perfectly, enough so that my new R & D Conversion cylinder works great in my first original. I don't even have to change out the origianl hammer as the firing pin nestles under the firing pin keeper ring and the cutout in the recoil plate. YEEE HAWWW!  Aligns perfectly, but I need to replace the original cylinder pin as after 135 + years is a bit worn so it has some cylindr movement on lockup but not when the hammer is down. Just enough to make me want to fix it. I have an Euroarms new Cylinder pin, new today, that I'll work on to make a replace ment for shooting. The original cylinder pins are smaller dia than the repros' as are the cylinder pin hole in the cylinders.
All in all it Goes BOOM! and SMOKE really good.

[tinker2]

Charlie

Looks great.
Are they shootable? Center fire?


Tinker2

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Tinker2,

Yep both are shootable the first one I have put in an R & D 45LC conversion cylinder so as not to goober the original cylinder that needs the TLC of a guy with a lathe to get it back in shooting shape. Lands and Grooves are sharp and clear and it mic(.450-.451 grooves and .438-439 lands.

I'll email you about the lathe work I need if you are up for it? , I'll have to fabricate a recoil shield as the original slide in one is missing. It is an interrupted cut and just a face off or so on the original drilled thru cylinder and a new dougnut. I have the details and I'll enclose them.

I have the R & D 45 LC conversion cylinder for sale as I found a couple new 44 Rem/Colt R&D conversion cylinders that'll take my 44 Rem. ammo. Have one in the mail tonight, and may pick up the other one next week.

The originals take an Uberti R & D and I suspect, actually I know, that Uberti Kirst conversions will work as well. I did put the Kirsts in the original before I sold them with the carbone and the gunslinger. They worked fine, but I had them listed and the guns sold so I had to let them go. The Conversions aligned perfectly and with a new hand, idexed fine too.

The second Conversion original is a shooter out of the box as it is 100% functional and it's in 44 C.F. Which I'm sure is 44 Rem/Colt C.F.

Glad to see you're back on here, been wondering about you.

[James Hunt]

Very Nice, very nice.

I shot my original NMA at the NCOWS nationals last summer. Did just fine thru all 6 stages that day. Never slowed a bit, never cleaned a bit, it was a very warm day with some humidity. Shoot 28 grains 2f Goex. I am surprised your RD fits. I have an RD that does drop right in mine and cylces OK but the hammer nose is just a shade wide and will not engage the firing pin on the cylinder.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

My hammer nose has been modified with a firing pin on the very bottom of the flat, and the flat narrowed during time of use, . The firing pin nestles below the firing pin keeper ring and the cutout in the R & D recoil plate for the firing pin...as luck would have it.

[tinker2]

I'll email you about the lathe work I need if you are up for it? , I'll have to fabricate a recoil shield as the original slide in one is missing. It is an interrupted cut and just a face off or so on the original drilled thru cylinder and a new doughnut. I have the details and I'll enclose them.

Charlie

I would be pleased to help you with any of it my friend.

I am also most interested in the recoil shield for the
top gun. was that gun a completed conversion?
If so would it not be better to just make the recoil
shield like what is missing to fit it?

My education on Remington conversions has been mostly
from you. my interest in the 58 has been you AKA Old
Dragoon and The Remington Kid.

So thanks, any way I can help I will.

Tinker2

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Well the original cylinder need some TLC in the pawl area, the person that converted it didn't take into consideration that the pawl area has to be at least as wide as the hand slot so the hand doesn't skip past the pawl lands (for want of another term).
Now maybe when first done it was fine, but it is now worn so much that the hand slips past the pawl area (doughnut0. So the original cylinder needs to be faced off a tish, and a new stepped doughnut put on then redrilled thru to accept the 44 Rem / Colt brass rim.(read 44 Colt rim) and leave as much of the pawl area so a new pawl land can be cut. If you look at the end of a C & B cylinder and see the pawl area, what I cal lands are the pawl star legs. The origianl's pawl star legs are too short due to  too much being machined away. The origianl has been shot the way it is but it backs the primers out of the brass(loaded or empty) due to non existant head space, and the firing pin perferates the primers being too sharp.

The fix I envision will look like(looking into the breech end of the cylinder) a full moon clip with a doughnut with the original pawl dia as the center bore and the thickness to allow the pawl star legs to be lengthened and the whole pawl star deepened, it has been shot so much that the pawl is worn down to almost nothing. But, having said that, the rifling in the bore is sharp and clean. Go figure.

I'll work up some drawings. I'm in no hurry as I'll shoot it with an R & D conversion in it.
I have a almost new R & D 45 LC in it now and she rocks, I have a new R & D 44 Rem/Colt Conversion cylinder in the mail, so I'll be able to shoot my 44 rem C.F.'s in it

Part of me would like to fix the origianl cylinder and replace the recoil shield that is missing. There had to be a recoil shield at one time, there are wear marks on the frame that suggest there was at one time a recoil shield. A slide in one as there are no dovetails or screw holes in the frame.
Another part of me wants to just put the origianl cylinder in a box and keep it the way it is to go with the gun.

[tinker2]

Charlie

If the hand has to much play in it's slot it can slide
out to the side.  I have seen some conversions that
did that. A wider / over size hand fixed it. ??
I have seen conversions that only worked as long as
it had cartridges in it. ??
A recoil shield might stop the hand from sliding out.

Is the cylinder chambered?
Are the cartridge rims recessed?
How thick do you think the recoil shield that is missing
would be?

Where are the wear marks on the frame that suggest there
was at one time a recoil shield? On the outside of the frame?
Close up pictures of that might be helpful. the back of the
cylinder too.

I like the idea of keeping the original cylinder and making
it work if possible and a new recoil shield.


I would be more then happy to help you do it however you
would like it done.


Tinker2

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I'll get some pictures of the original cylinder up soon.

There are wear marks on the bottom of the cylinder frame that may indicte that there was a recoil shield at one time. The cylinder is bored thru for a 44 case, (44 Mags/44 special brass work) but not recessed. Which leads to this question, were 44 Rem/Colt original brass a larger dia Rim??? I don't know and I need to see a 44 Martin C.F. and Frankford Arsenal 44 C.F. to determine rim size and Cal this gun was converted for. it could be 46 Cl rimfire but shows no marks of that. and th hammer has a firing pin welded? to the bottom flat of the hammer. They drilled out the nipple recess and left it like that. so with the 44 mag brass you see some brass in the recesses.

There is about a quarter inch gaop from the rear frame wall to the back of the cylinder minus the rim thickness. It could be a fast and dirty Mexican/ Frontier conversion that had no recoil shield. The original hand slot is wider than normal(repros), and I thought of silver soldering width to the hand, but the pawl is soooo worn that that may be futile. Even slap beside the hand slot (near hammer) it wants to ride left and away from the pawl.

I had thought of using a filister head screw for the hand stud that would keep the hand near the slot, The pawl dia is worn just too small. Period, from years of use. it shows lots of hand riding scratches on the outside Dia.

The new Euroarms hand fit and works fine, also a new Euro hand stud fits. The Euroarms trigger and bolt spring screw will not fit an origianl. The trigger/bolt spring does fit as does most of the internal parts, but the legs on the Euroarms bolt may have to be notched like the original(the original has a semi circular cut in the middle of both legst (like a Colt Bolt) and "snaps" into place in the frame.

The gun was sold as an Armory reblue, but it appears to be about 70% (maybe 80%) covered with original blue turning Plum on the edges and wear spots....no polishing marks. The bbl address is great , two lines anyway, the third line, the "New" in New Model is about gone, but they were struck lightly most of the time and holster wear takes it's course.. Blue is not shiny, but dull and still there. My friend Wyatte Emp(Gunbroker) says I stole the gun for the price I paid. He offered me my money back if I'd sell it...LOL That would be Lots Of Luck!

I'll get on those plans and get some pictures up of the cylinder. First one I have seen converted this way.