dry firing practice

[papahoss]

I've always heard it is bad for the gun (any gun) to dry fire, but in the Evil Roy DVD he suggests an excellent way to practice is to do a great deal of dry firing in your home. He makes no mention about using snap caps for this practice.
Are snap caps needed? Should I or should I not practice by dry firing, cause I need all the practice I can get, on and off the range.

[Dr. Bob]

Snap caps prevent the hammer from battering the frame.  They are necessary.  Try A-Zoom which is a division of Lyman Products.  Just do a search for A-Zoom and you will find it.  They make most of the calibers that a CAS shooter would want.  Then you can shoot the bad guys on the TV, being sure to check your sight picture and squeeze the trigger!

[Camille Eonich]

My gunsmith recommended to me that I not use snap caps especially zoom.  Something about the springs doing something funny.

Pistols you should be ok using nothing.  For the rifle if it makes you feel better you can take an empty case and grind the top edge off of it so that the extractor won't catch on it.  Fill the primer hole with clear caulk.


For shotgun practice make you a few shells that are a completely different color than any that you have ever shot.  Fill them with case cleaning media so that they have a little weight but not the full weight of a loaded round.


I don't dry fire much but I know people who practice in this manner every single night and some several times a day.   I have been told that my smith dry fire practices in the "reading room"   

[papahoss]

Thanks for the additional info about the snap caps,don't think I want to be packing when I go to the Library 

By the way took your advise on the brass selection, an placed an order last night at starline.

[North Bender]

Well, not using snap caps is something I haven't been advised about before.

Assuming there are folks out there who do use snap caps, how long do they last for you?  I haven't used them before but I bought 6 for my new .45 Colt SAA.  Can they provide comfort for a lot of dry fires?

Assuming that you do believe they provide any comfort at all ...

[Dr. Bob]

Cammie,

Are you refering to revolvers with a transfer bar, rather than ones with a fixed firing pin?

[Camille Eonich]

Cammie,

Are you refering to revolvers with a transfer bar, rather than ones with a fixed firing pin?

Both Dr Bob.   My Smith shoots Colts and I shoot Rugers.

[Camille Eonich]

Let me just add that there are a lot of people out there that do use snap caps and dry fire a lot so if they do hurt your guns then it's going to take a TON of dry fire practicing to do so.  If they make you feel better about your dry fire praticing and you don't mind spending the money to buy them then go ahead.


As I said earlier I don't dry fire practice very much or very often.  I do know people that dry fire practice every single day for 20 to 30 minutes and none of them use caps and all of them have been shooting longer than I have and using the same guns without problems.

[papahoss]

 :-\Talk about timing here I go again, a day late and $37.96 short, just ordered two sets of a-zoom 45 caliber snap caps last night.
just like the drovers of old, that money sure do find the hole in my pocket fast. Oh well I guess the only way to take it with you when your gone, is get travelers checks.

[Silver_Rings]

Papahos,  too many places don't accept traveler chks any more.  Heaven you don't need em and the devil would expect them to be fake. So spend it now.

SR

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Whether or not dry firing without using snap caps will damage a gun has a lot to do with the design of the gun. Not all designs are the same. The purpose of snap caps is primarily to protect the firing pin.

The question is, what is your firing pin shaped like? Long, thin, pointy firing pins, like are mounted in the hammer of most SAAs and clones need protection. Flat hockey puck shaped firing pins, like mounted in the frame of a Ruger, need less protection.

The firing pin on the typical Colt or clone is mounted to the hammer by a pin through the rear, and fattest part of the pin. When you pull the trigger, the hammer flies forward at tremendous velocity. Then the hammer slams to a sudden stop against the frame. The deleration forces are really tremendous, probably on the order of several hundred Gs (gravities). If no cartidge, primer, or snap cap is present when the hammer stops, the firing pin wants to keep right on going. The firing pin does not stop against the frame, there is clearance designed into the frame around the pin. The only thing that keeps the firing pin from flying forward is the little pin holding it to the hammer. Now the retaining pin seldom breaks, but the tip of the firing pin sometimes does. It depends on how thin the pin is in comparison to its length. If you look at the tip of the typical Colt or clone firing pin, the tip is very thin and relatively long. That shape is the least able to withstand the stress of rapid deceleratiion. The thinner the cross section, the weaker it is. Trust me on this. I had a lot of fun one night before a match fitting a new firing pin to one of my Colts after the tip took off to parts unknown. If you look at the firing pin on a First Gen Colt, it is a tapering, wedge shape. It never becomes a small diameter cylindrical shape. The First Gen firing pin is much less liable to loose its tip than a modern clone pin. Unfortunately, when Colt changed the design of the firing pin, they did not know a lot about this stuff.

The presence of something to slow down and cushion the tip of the firing pin just before the hammer slams to a stop will protect the tip of the firing pin from separating and continuing forward. That is what snap caps do. They are just stiff enough to cushion the firing pin and bring it to a gentle stop, and just stiff enough to offer some resistance. A primer does the exact same thing. As the firing pin dents it, the primer is actually cushioning the sudden stop of the firing pin. The next logical question is, why not just use spent primers? A spent primer will work once or twice, but after being struck repeatedly, it reshapes itself to the shape of the firing pin at its furthest extension. After that has happened, the spent primer can no longer cushion the sudden stop, and you might as well not have anything there at all.

A Ruger's firing pin is a much more robust design than that of a Colt or clone. It is much squatter. It has a greater cross section in comparison to its length. The tip of the Ruger firing pin is much less likely to continue flying forward than the tip of a Colt or clone firing pin. I have never heard of a Ruger firing pin breaking. I have however heard of transfer bars breaking. It probably will not happen right away, it probably won't happen to you. But they do break on occaission. Hang out with CAS shooters long enough and you will probably bump into somebody who has broken a transfer bar. Ruger tells you right in their owners manual that dry firing is OK. You probably will not break a firing pin. As a matter of fact, I don't think a snap cap will protect your transfer bar anyway. The hammer has already smacked the transfer bar pretty hard before the transfer bar hits the firing pin and the firing pin reaches a snap cap.

The rule of thumb is pretty simple. Long skinny firing pin? Use a snap cap. Short squat firing pin? probably not necessary. I'm not saying that dry firing a clone will snap a firing pin the first time you try it. But everytime it slams to a stop, you are putting tremendous stress on it, and it may snap off at some point.

I don't know why anybody would slam the A-Zoom snap caps, I think they're fine. The rubbery plastic the firing pin hits is just the right consistancy to be stiff enough to provide resistance, but still soft enough to give a little bit of cushioning. A lot of folks recommend filling the empty primer pocket of a spent case with silicone caulk. In my opinion, that material is too soft and may not protect your firing pin very well. A good alternative is the rubber eraser material from an old fashioned pencil. That rubber is just about the right stiffness to do the job.

[North Bender]

Thanks for that reply, DJ.  I didn't ask my question very well yesterday about how long a snap cap will work.  I was wondering what they were made of.  As you describe them as consisting of a rubbery plastic that leads me to believe that they may have quite a bit of life to them.

[Bibbyman]

I thought I'd bring this topic up again.  We recently talked about the possibility that firing raising a burr around the firing pin hole on a Smokewagon.

I'm of the don't dry fire side of the topic. Just the way I was brought up.   But have never used snap caps (as I don't dry fire to any extent). 

I can see where Ruger pin in frame design could stand up better than the Colt and clones design with pin mounted on hammer.

I can see whare dry firing would help develop speed and control but there would be a price to pay with wear on the gun.

How many CAS guys dry fire?  How much?  Do you continue dry firing after you've reached some level of proficiently? 

[Deadeye Don]

When I fire my guns I much prefer a bullet to come out the barrel.   

[Red Cent]

I have a pair of 3 screws that I used as main match guns for about 6 years. 2001-2007. During this time I was one of those who Camille is referring. I practiced dry firing everyday. And I shot live rounds every Saturday and Sunday. The 3 acrews were originally owned by Cody Conagher. Then by Lone Dude of NC fame. Then me. The only thing I have replaced is one trigger return spring.

I use to own a pair of tricked out OM Rugers from Cody Conagher. I broke about thre transfer bars. Had Lone Dude weld up the hammers and nothing ever broke after that.

I practice dry firing quite a bit with my 1911 (Colt National Match). I have had it since around 1981. Bought used. Used it in IPSC. Hours and hours of dry fire practice. The only thing replaced was the pin holding the rear sight.

I agree with DJ. And I would add, if the firing pin is in the hammer, use snap caps. Rugers and others have "floating" firing pins in the frame.

[Jefro]

I agree with DJ. And I would add, if the firing pin is in the hammer, use snap caps. Rugers and others have "floating" firing pins in the frame.

Yep, if you have a Colt style revolver there is a firing pin bushing pressed into the recoil sheild. Dry firing without snap caps will result in a burr that can drag on a round or primer. Especially bad if you're using 209 shotgun primers for Cowboy Fast Draw. I always carry a finish stone in my range bag just for this.
    A couple of weeks ago we had a new shooter show up with brand new Frontiers (nice guns, I have a pair). He had one that kept getting stuck and had to turn the cylinder with off hand to finish the stage. I took them apart at the unloading table and knocked off the burr, they ran smooth the rest of the day. Good Luck

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[August]

The '73 ('66) has a channel for the firing pin that has several steps to it.  One of these steps "catches" the end of the firing pin when there is no cartridge present to, otherwise, stop the forward motion of the firing pin.

Over time, with dry firing, this step will be peened closed by the head of the firing pin.  Ultimately, this peening will seize the firing pin and hold it in the forward position.  When that happens, an out-of-battery ignition of a round is inevitable.

This is not a theory.  It has happened to me.  The result was ugly, with the only saving grace that nobody was hurt by the Shrapnel that flew in every direction.

So, after replacing several parts on the rifle, the gunsmith told me sternly never to dry fire a '73 without a snap cap.

Palo Verde Gunworks makes a great snap cap for just this application.  Available from Palo Verde or Brownells or Evil Roy.

Do NOT dry fire your '73.  Do regularly inspect the firing pin and extension for free movement.  This inspection should be a part of your regular cleaning procedure.

[Blair]

Question?

Anybody get the idea that dry firing may not be a good thing?
Especially if the dry firing is in excess?
There are a lot of things that can go BAD.
If you have to squeeze/pull the trigger... use snap caps when not live firing.
"enough said"!
You all have-at-it.
Blair