1870's Period Correct Cowboy Boot Source

[Delmonico]

It appears to be made of leather when you get it up full, Drummer maybe?

[Books OToole]

I thought it appeared to be leather also.  A drummer would be my guess, but I may run a different direction with an idea.

Books

[Ol Gabe]

Just an observation here, re: 12972...
Is there a caption for this pic? If not, I posit that it is a pic of a Dressage Horse used in a Circus or owned by a wealthy Banker, etc., and shown in exhibitions as this is not a Cowpunchers horse!
Perhaps the man with the haversack in the background is actually the owner or trainer and is only carrying a bag to put stuff in. Of course 'if' you want to think it is a Drummer's bag, which no drum other than a Celtic Bodhran would fit in, go ahead, but it appears to be a common rucksack/haversack style of bag. Drum heads would fit in it but would normally be carried in a hard-sided case made out if painted cardboard similar to a ladies hatbox.
Now, if it 'is' a Circus Dressage Horse as it most certainly looks like and not the type of those seen on the Prairie in 'Cowboy' usage, then the bag may indeed have been used to carry items for the Horse Show, more than likely just his horses brush and a curry comb.
The rider exhibits a posture not unfamiliar with those used in training horses for this type of exhibition which were quite popular then, but without any nomenclature on the original pic it goes without justification, much like that of the alledged 'dead horse' seen all over the net in the past few weeks and posted here on CasCity.
Del, thanks again for posting such intriguing pics from your home state's collection, it is always fun to see what you will come up with and how it gets 'explained' by those who view them! Hoping that there is a definitive caption somewhere to help us all out with this description.
Riding off into the sunset on my old white horse and posting all the way to a Martial beat, I remain,
'Ol Gabe
P.S.
As a young boy we had several all-white horses we bought that were retired from Circus and Rodeo use due to old age on our farm. They would all stand in a perfect line as if 'tied down' and they wouldn't do a whit til they heard music, then they would prance and be the best ride you ever had! Ah, the good 'ol days when you could buy a horse for $50 and a saddle from the 1890's for $10 at an auction...

[Delmonico]

Ol Gabe, the title is C.W. Hocaboon's Livery, Feed and Sale Stable, Broken Bow Custer County Nebraska 1887.

The Sign that says so is on the Building.  When I said drummer I meant salesman as in the fella with the whiskey in Stagecoach.

I love that collection I wish more would have saved the negatives and passed them on to us, just think what we could find.

[Quick Fire]

Del, I'd say that horse is missing his teammate or mates as he looks like a workhorse type. The horse definitely is not a cow-horse.

[Delmonico]

Yes, I was kinda figured that, but it would make a good mount for some of the modern "Cowboy" cowboy shooters.

But my point was out of work cowboys did often work at a livery stable for lack of a better job.  Beat doin' dishes in the resteraunt for food and found.

[French Jack]

Del, regarding the boots you picture of the card player, those are factory made.  I have seen several photos of them being worn.  They are a hunting boot that has a lace up section in the instep area.  The uppers are identical otherwise with pull on boots.  Monty Ward in catalog No. 56, 1894-95, advertises at least three models of them on page 502.

They would appear to give the benefits of a lace up packer with the ability to wear pants bloused in more comfort.  I suspect that the section is a bellows that is formed in the gusset at the instep, and not a tongue type insert.  In other words, no opening to allow dirt to get into the boot.

The horse in question is definitely not a cow pony, but does not look like a plow horse either.  Not large enough in the barrel and shoulders.  It is very likely a stud, as the neck development is quite pronounced.  Appears to be either a show horse or pleasure horse that is kept for breeding purposes.  Since the rider is on bareback, must have a pretty good disposition, especially if it stands long enough for a photo.

Just my 2 cents.
FJ

[James Hunt]

Back to "Kid on the horse" photo -

DArchangel: I was intrigued by your comment that you believe that the cinch indicated that the photo was perhaps reversed and showed the off side of the horse - I'm not seeing what you are seeing, why do think that? Those old saddles often tied off with a windsor knot on both sides, there was no billet on the off side. I ride a saddle like that. What are you seeing that I'm missing?

Also it appears in the enlarged photo that the cinch (or is it a girth since it is a centerfire saddle?) is made for a buckle, I think I see that. While there were buckles, billets, etc in those days - the CW Federal saddle cinch had a buckle, it was always my opinion (simply from looking at photos - I can't recall an authoritative source) that the common (by far, by far) method of securing the spanish (texas, calif., plains) saddle was by tying off with a windsor knot. Most of the pictures of old horse hair cinch's I have seen that the author has attributed to the trail period did not have the capacity to buckle on either side.

[French Jack]

Del, that Flobert single shot rifle that the boy is holding was also made in 32 short rimfire and a 9mm rimfire.  The 32 was pretty commonly used as a barn gun or a small game gun.  I occasionally see one turn up at a gun show.

[Delmonico]

Thanks French Jack, I knew the army had those style of boots but these were not the Army ones and I do know some were done the other way to help get a crippled foot in.  Today they just have zippers put in.

Thanks on the rifle, what I know as a Flobert is the 22 cal or 6 mm rimfire that uses no powder and a round ball.  I forget that it was also a company.  Be kind of like thinking all Winchesters were lever guns.  Did these use just the hammer for the breech like the older galler guns or did they use something a bit stronger?

From the enlarged picture I was guessing 9mm, the 9mm had a shot round that held about 1/4 oz of shot,  I should have a speciman or two of it, I have a couple of the 6mm ones for sure, cute as heck, little copper head, roll crimped paper case.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Definitely looks like a Flobert to me. 
Below are links to more pictures and info.
http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=3843
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=9314

Slim

[Ol Gabe]

Del's comment "When I said drummer I meant salesman as in the fella with the whiskey in Stagecoach." reminded me of the 'grip' bag/case that character carried in that movie, all stuffed full of samples, so thought I'd do a Google search using 'drummer, 1880s salesman' to help fill in some gaps, enjoy.
Also, couldn't find anything on a haversack being specifically used by a Drummer, but as it was a great way to carry phamplets, papers and suchlike, 'street hawkers' may have used them as a way to pass out fliers for promotional purposes, so 'yes' it could indeed have served the purpose that Del & Books so-intended. Thanks for the concept, guys.
Best regards and "..can I take your order?"
'Ol Gabe
...
Even though the drummer evoked such strong antipathy across the country, he represented the leading edge of a new phenomenon in America. He was the one who would carry the virtues of capitalism and the availability of goods to the hinterlands. Historian Robert Twyman said it well, in describing this salesman:
"Setting out with his grips, a couple of trunks-full of samples or 'swatches' of goods, and his vest bedecked with lodge emblems, the...traveling man journeyed patiently and laboriously from one town to the next within his allotted territory. Arriving in town, he engaged a room at the local hotel and one of the other hotel rooms. Having several days earlier sent an advance card to each of the merchants in town notifying them that he would be there, he was now ready for business."
Indeed, such salesmen were also known as "Knights of the Grip." The life of the traveling salesman continues to this day, though it has taken a considerable hit in the past 30 or so years. Aiding the drummers in the 1870s and 1880s were two US Supreme Court decisions (one, in 1871, invalidating a Maryland licensing statute because it charged differential rates for in-state and out-of state traveling salesmen; one in 1887, invalidating a Tennessee anti-drummer statute which charged local and out-of-state traveling salesmen the same fee, but which nevertheless was unconstitutional because of the assumption that local houses need not send out drummers), which curtailed the ability of the states to assess licensing fees--even though the issue ultimately persisted well into the 20th century.
Thus the traveling salesmen continued his work, canvassing, selling, drumming and even "knocking." This last term was used by John Patterson, the founder of National Cash Register, to denote people who would undermine the competition by "knocking" their products. "Knockers" were look-alike copies of competitors' products, built in a way to avoid patent violations but were cheaper versions of the competitors' products. They were rigged in a way to see if the wrong amount would be rung up when keys were punched. By proving the competition faulty, he could provide additional reasons why NCR products were superior.
And then, we close with the "masher," the person that the sales managers wanted to make sure that their salesmen would not become. A masher was a "womanizer; a man who makes indecent sexual advances to a woman, esp. in a public place." Because the salesmen were on the road all the time, the temptation to become such a character was very strong. But the large enterprises wanted their men to be "professionals"--men who had families and home loyalties and a sense that their profession was a noble calling. Somehow, that idea has never fully caught on...
...
Old salesman sample cases are still valued very highly at antique shows, saw one used by an Optometrist a few years back at a gun show in Des Moines, IA. It was about the size of a large modern briefcase but when opened had rows of lenses and frames that were interchangable and a mirror on the inside to look at yourself. It had the original name of the company and suchlike on the outside, all faded, and worn, brown velvet on the inside with a price tag of $500, shoulda bought it, Del would love to have it!

[Delmonico]

Thanks Ol Gabe, good information.  Like all good threads this one wandered a bit but as I have said, my research has lead down some strange and faint paths, I try to follow all them and come up with some strange but interesting knowledge.

[Delmonico]

On type of period footwear that is often over looked is just plain nothing.  Not one you'd most likely see on a cowboy but plenty of homesteaders went that way at times.  Most men did put on their boots for pictures but here is a couple of older boys from 1886 going naked on the feet.  Perhaps they were waitng for the crops to be sold to get a pair or perhaps they just didn't want to have to clean the mud off of them.

[O.T. Buchannan]

Hmmm.....I wonder if those lads took their footwear off to save it from the mud?  It's much easier cleaning mud off of feet, than leather footwear..and out of the bottoms of wool trousers!  Ask me how I know!!!

That photo reminds me of something:  I don't remember where I read it, but during the Civil War, a man remarked of seeing a Confederate Soldier...one of Lee's troops, I believe.  At any rate, he stated that the man was well armed with Musket and Cartridge box, but that the man was barefoot.  A common situation in the Confederacy, but of note was the fact that the writer said this man - in all his barefoot glory, was the 'Proudest man' he had ever seen.

[Irish Dave]

Of interest also (at least to me) is the collarless vests these boys are sportin'. Most current "period" clothiers would seem to have us believe that all vests in the old days had collars er, lapels  . Now, that isn't true, but it's nice to see additional verification from time to time.

Similar to the thought that all shirts sported banded collars (except for the bib-fronted styles). While River Junction does offer regular, pullover shirts with fold-down collars, almost none of the other manufacturers/suppliers that I know of have much to offer in that respect.

[Delmonico]

Good points Dave, one other thing that shows up in some of the Butcher Photos as well as others is the full button shirts.  Now they were far from the majority, but more common than most think.  They are hard to really spot though because many wear vests also.  I see a lot of button up the back mens shirts also.

[Dr. Bob]

There are several pictures of Wild Bill with a collarless vest.  I also found a picture of a group of veterans of the Battle of San Jacento [Texian Rev.] dated 1871 or there abouts which had 5 or 6 fellows with them.  Also had brogans and the band collar shirt.  Used them as part of my Original persona documentation which was 1875 back in 2005.

I sure wish that someone would reproduce the button up the back shirt.  Bullock had them in Deadwood.  Wonder where they got them?? 

[Books OToole]

While River Junction does offer regular, pullover shirts with fold-down collars, almost none of the other manufacturers/suppliers that I know of have much to offer in that respect.

That is why I have mine custom made.  The most common shirt was undoubtably white cotton.  I have four.  

Vests w/o lapels were fairly common.  I used a picture of J.B. Hickock (p. 200 The Scouts) for one of my originals documentations.  I now have six thrift store conversions. (Two linen, three wool and one cotton and I have less invested in all six than the cost of one new WAH Maker Vest.)

Books

[gw]

Books, I heard you was almost as tight-fisted with a dollar as me, but now I'm gittin jealous!