Muzzle blast & recoil

[Riot Earp]

Howdy. I'm new to cap & ball guns.

I've been told that black powder is louder than smokeless. Is this true?

And what about recoil? Is BP more of a push than a snap? Is it uncomfortable?

I just want to know what to expect when I pop my first cap on my .36

[Wallaby Jack]

Pop yer first cap ........... you'll enjoy it 


(an' it won't hurt ........ much .... just follow instructions)
I usually run mine with about 15grains of FFFg

[Arcey]

Ain't gonna hurt none.  Load it up, lube it up 'n let 'er rip.

Most fun ya can have with your clothes on..............

[hellgate]

The recoil is mostly PERCEIVED rather than felt. Because of the different sound and concussion of the air, it feels like the gun is recoiling more but the 36 Navy with the 82gr ball is like shooting a .22. Fuggettaboutit! When shooting the BP 12 guage others will feel the concussion of the air, the BOOM, see the cloud and think you've shot off a cannon but the shotgun will give more of a push than a snap (same for the pistol). If you shoot a 130 gr conical it might feel like recoil but most of what you sense will be the BOOM, sparks (especially if dim lighting) and smoke which makes you and others think more has happened than really. If I shoot 30grs powder under a 200gr conical then I feel the recoil. Otherwis its the noise and smoke that looks like it oughta recoil but doesn't much. I'd do mor worrying about just getting the gun to go off each time and not getting hot caps sizzling your hand while shooting.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Riot Earp, and welcome in here.

Go ahead, load 'er up and let 'er flicker.  The 36cal with around 15 grains of FFFg Holy Black is a genuine pleasure to shoot.

Welcome to the Darkside.

DD-DLoS

[Ransom Gaer]

I typically shoot 20 grains of Goex Cowboy behind a roundball in my Navies and the so called recoil is negligible.  I barely notice even with the hotter load that I shoot in comparison to what the other pards have said.  I actually like my big .44 1860 Armies better because they do recoil a little more.  And even they are mild compared to my '58 Remmies with their R&D conversion cylinders and 32 grains of BP  in the .45 Colt case.

You'll find that Navy to be really nice to shoot.

Ransom Gaer

[Adirondack Jack]

Ya really have to try hard to stuff enough powder behind a round ball to make a '51 feel like a "real gun".

recoil is negligible.

Not to say the're a granny gun or anything of the sort.  If'n ya shoot em with one mitt, and deal with caps fallin' in the works and all ya got yer hands full to make a good day out of it in terms of score, but no, recoil ain't much at all.  Yer talking a projectile of 81 grains and even at the 1000 fps limit, that ain't no wrist breaker.  (roughly 2/3 what a halfway potent .38 spl. is in terms of recoil).

(edited after I figgered out what the heck Arcey was talkin' about   Pardon my typing   )

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Riot Earp!  Welcome!

IMHO the recoil of BP and the sound, while different,  aren't as much as smokey-less.  Yes, I'd say it IS more of a steady push than a sharp shove.  Ya want recoil?  Try a 20" barrel double 12 ga., magnum loads, one HANDED,  with both barrels at the same time!     Rather stout, if I do say so myself.  Not for the faint hearted - OR any gun that is not well made!

I've also heard that a Ruger Old Army (their C&B pistol) loaded up FULL with 4F powder has some pretty stout recoil ... AND will cock the hammer, therefore making is a "semi-auto"!!  Right, DD?!!!     Don't try THIS at home, kids! 

[sundance44`s]

Smokeless powders produce a loud POP ! Black Powder produces a very loud BOOM ! not to mention the rather large gathering of folks wondering what the Heck was that !  Ain`t nothing like it ....almost forgot B/P also makes me smile... and the wife says nothin makes me smile ...

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

There has been lots of speculation about the difference in the sound of a Black Powder round and a Smokeless round. I have never seen audio data on it, but I can tell you the perception of a BP round is a very deep boom, while a Smokeless round tends to sound more like a crack.

A has been said, recoil is largly perceived, it is seldom quantified. When I first started shooting BP regularly in CAS I had also heard that the recoil was punishing, so I bought a big Ruger Bisley Vaquero to deal with the heavy recol. The Bisley model had a larger grip, and I thought I would need the larger grip to handle the heavier recoil.

I just sold the Bisley a couple of weeks ago. I have been shooting nothing but standard Colt and colt clone revolvers with full powered 250 grain 45 Colt loads for several years now. I grip my revolvers low on the grip, with my pinky curled under the bottom of the grip. I take particular effort to leave about 1/4" of space between my second finger and the rear of the trigger guard. The 1/4" of space protects my knuckle from being smacked by the triggerguard in recoil. Gripping my pistols this way, I can shoot full powered 45 Colt loads all day and they are not punishing. The pinky under the grip prevents the gun from rotating overly far, my muzzle lifts about 30-45 degrees with every shot. But my entire hand and arm rises with the gun, rather than the gun rolling very far in my hand. If you try to cram your entire hand onto the grip of a revovler with heavy loads, you may wind up getting your knuckles rapped.

Recoil is directly related to bullet weight and powder charge. All other things being equal, a heavier bullet generates more recoil than a light bullet. I have been talking about 250 grain bullets in the 45 Colt ahead of 35+ grains of powder. With a round ball in a C&B revolver, you can't stuff in as much powder, and the ball weighs less than a bullet shaped projectile. So recoil will be less. Most 44 cal balls weigh about the same as a 38 Special bullet. Most C&B revolvers recoil about the same amount as a 38 Sp revolver. They are not as loud as a heavily loaded BP cartridge either.

[Frenchie]

The worst recoil I've ever experienced was full-power .357 Magnums in a 2.5" barreled Taurus M605. Actually approached uncomfortable. Closest to that was .45 ACP +P in an M1911 Combat Commander. Compared to them, black powder percussion guns are easy, especially .36s. My '61 Springfield rifle musket is actually pleasant to shoot with 60 grains and a .575 Minié ball.

[Marshal harpoluke]

Howdy Riot Earp!  Welcome!

IMHO the recoil of BP and the sound, while different,  aren't as much as smokey-less.  Yes, I'd say it IS more of a steady push than a sharp shove.  Ya want recoil?  Try a 20" barrel double 12 ga., magnum loads, one HANDED,  with both barrels at the same time!     Rather stout, if I do say so myself.  Not for the faint hearted - OR any gun that is not well made!

I've also heard that a Ruger Old Army (their C&B pistol) loaded up FULL with 4F powder has some pretty stout recoil ... AND will cock the hammer, therefore making is a "semi-auto"!!  Right, DD?!!!     Don't try THIS at home, kids! 

Try 10ga 4&1/2drams 2f/ 2oz shot;  causes minor earthquakes, terrifies RO's, loosens Yer teeth, detatches retnias, beltches a 12'to 14' foot flame and vaporizes targets.

The most fun Yeh can have with Yer cloths on.

[Arcey]

The worst recoil I've ever experienced was full-power .357 Magnums in a 2.5" barreled Taurus M605. Actually approached uncomfortable.

Yep.  Them l'il short barreled revolvers in .357 Magnum er kindah fun.  Had me a 2 ½" Smith 66 I wanted to carry off duty so I had to qualify under the department's standards with the ammo I was gonna carry in it.  Had me some 158 grain factory PMC .357 Magnum ammo.  Ole RO was callin' it a dinosaur.  Ole former Marine.  Him 'n me went way back 'n I love 'im ta death but occasionally he'd get a l'il much 'n I'd have to remind 'im of my rank versus his.

First targets are within arms reach to be shot from the hip.  Muzzle blast blew the right target off the stand 'n sent him backin' away.

"What's the matter, Herbie?"  "Forgot", pardon the expression here, "what a 'real gun' sounds like?" 

Finished out with a hundred.  That revolver is retired now.  I found something better to carry.

Enjoy the heck out of my .36 '51 Navy clone.  Easy recoil.  Doesn't take much lead or powder ta make a target go CLANG.  Darned fun for this Cowboy game.  Means somethin' lead wise when ya cast yer own.  They carried 'n used them things in the 'real' old west too.  Just often I got too much ta do durin' a shoot to mess with loadin' it so I don't use it or the Remington much.

Gottah say I got alot ta learn about 'em.  Seems a real expert here knows sumthin' 'bout a .51.  Seen 'em in .40 plus but never o'er .50.  Mine is a 1851 clone or a '51.  I'd think a .51 wouldn't be difficult ta make feel like a 'real' man's gun.  But what would I know?

Be a shame fer someone ta come along 'n say a .36 don't have 'nuff recoil ta be a 'real' gun so ya gottah shoot it in a Mouse Phart category.  Ain't 'nuff recoil to satisfy a 92 year old Great Granny........................

[Howdy Doody]

36 C&B is really mild. Not much more than a 22 long in a single six by my reckoning. I have always used a 30gr load in 44 and 45 C&B and they aren't much either really. I shoot a lot with ROAs and the weight of them probably helps felt recoil. Muzzle flip isn't as noticable as I remember smokeless being, so that would give you the push more than the flip I guess. It has been so long since I have shot smokeless, I am starting to forget.
I did have one experience lately though. I loaded big for a night shoot. I shot the match with C&B and since I have Kirst converters, I took them to the match for the night shoot. I made up a compressed load of some old Swiss 3f I had an open can of and stuck a 200gr boolit on top. I got to stage one of the night time shoot part and pulled my first pistol and it near jumped out of my hand. I recovered and shot the rest of the two stages traditional style with both hands. Even then the recoil was way more than a push and for the first time my ROAs felt like I was shooting a 44 mag or something. The effect I had loaded for was there, but I learned to test before I jump in from now on. I got surprised. See pic

[Wildcat Will]

Eurp I can't say I have shot cap n balls recently, but since Arcey got me shootin BP I have completely gone off that fadish powder.  Recoil, heck I load a self cast 250 gn 45 loaded over 37/38 gn of 2F in a 45LC case.  Makes a bunch of smoke and fire and BOOM and has been known to knock down targets.  But recoil?  I have been told they jump about 6 inches (I shoot gunfighter style) but they are a whole lot easier to handle than a .357 with smokeless.  I was telling one of my pards just last weekend that we really do have the smokey-less folks bamboozled because of the show we BPers put on. 

My advise is to load them babies up and make lots of smoke and fire.  My only word of warning would be,  you are likely to never go back to smokey-less.

[Arcey]

Ain't nobody in this world I'd rather shoot with than Will.  That ole boy KNOWS how ta have fun.

Kin I hear a YEEEEEE HAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

[Lucky Irish Tom]

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!


BOOM!

[Frenchie]

HD, it's pics like that that tempt me to take Christine ('61 Springfield rifle musket) out back and let her rip a few after dark sometime. 'Specially on holidays when other idiots around here are shooting off fireworks, and I mean real ones, big skyrockets and LOUD 'crackers. I bet 110 grains of FFg would make the mother of all fireballs. Alas, I fear 'twould be just my luck to be the one the cops nab 'cause it's a gun.  They don't bother morons rattling windows and scaring folks to death, long as they ain't using a gun to do it.

[Troublesome River]

Howdy Riot.
Expect a cloud of smoke, a loud bang, and a big smile on your face because buddy, that's the only way to shoot!!!!!!-luck to ya.

[litl rooster]

Ain't nobody in this world I'd rather shoot with than Will.  That ole boy KNOWS how ta have fun.

Kin I hear a YEEEEEE HAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw


from last years Blue Ridge Round up..........................Frenchie this is not a hour and change from Luray