Rogers and Spencer revolver questions

Stacey Lee · January 15, 2007, 09:45:14 AM

Howdee doodie you lead slingin, black powder lovin ladies and gentlemen,

Does anyone here own one of these Rogers and Spencers, regular models, London Grey, or the target models?

I noticed on Brownells web-site today they have a conversion cylinder from R and d for this revolver in .45 ?
What I want to know is, is this pistol like the 1858 Remington in that the cylinders drop out real easy like, or not ?
They look like a cross between the Remington 1858 and a Colt 1851 Navy . I know the history of it already, but I can't find much on the function of it? Can you tell me what I want to know please

??
I am curious at least of this gun, it looks from all the pictures I have accumulated that it would be a natural pointer-shooter for sure. May be something unique to add to my collection, but ease of cylinder exchanging would be a must for me on that.
Thank you in advance for you infinate wisdom on this subject.

Sincerely, Stacey Lee

Tubac · January 15, 2007, 06:27:20 PM

Stacey,
As far as "ease of Cylinder change", you run into a problem with R&S revolvers. To remove the cylinder a screw and post nut(threaded cylinder) must be rmoved and NOT lost.
Once this is removed, the cylinder comes out. I have an original R&S that was converted to .44 American. I have shot it without the screw assembly, with no appearant harm, but only with mild loads of Black Powder.
Tubac

Tommy tornado · January 15, 2007, 09:15:17 PM

My R & S screw just turns and does not need to be removed in order to remove the loading lever. The grip is a lot more robust than the 1858 Rem and 1851 colt at the base. It tapers a bit towards the hammer. As for function, I think the only other revolver that can come close to functioning before fouling out is the Ruger Old Army. I have shot many more rounds through my Rodgers and Spencers in one trip to the range than I ever could have through my Remington and Colts. My only problem has been losing a front sight post because mine screw in. This was easliy fixed by ordering the part from Dixie Gun Works and a little JB Weld. It is a fine target pistol and used by a lot of N-SSA pistol shooters.

hellgate · January 15, 2007, 10:17:38 PM

Hey Tubac & Tommy,
The R&S is about the only 44 C&B that I do not own (besides a ROA which I'll likely never get). I've thought about it but I've heard that there is a longer reach to get to the hammer when cocking it therefore it is a slower gun to shoot in a hurry. Zat right?

Tommy tornado · January 16, 2007, 04:50:23 PM

Quote from: hellgate on January 15, 2007, 10:17:38 PM
Hey Tubac & Tommy,
The R&S is about the only 44 C&B that I do not own (besides a ROA which I'll likely never get). I've thought about it but I've heard that there is a longer reach to get to the hammer when cocking it therefore it is a slower gun to shoot in a hurry. Zat right?

For me yes it does have a longer reach, but then I am not a fast shooter. I like to hurry up and take my time.

Riot Earp · January 19, 2007, 10:50:15 AM

I was looking at the Euroarms London Gray model also. Looks like a more robust design than the Remington. If I get one, I'll probably cut the barrel to 6.25 inches and get the R&D cylinder.

Anybody know if these saw any action in the Old West?

Frenchie · January 19, 2007, 12:18:12 PM

Quote from: Riot Earp on January 19, 2007, 10:50:15 AMAnybody know if these saw any action in the Old West?

Not likely, see here: http://www.civilwarguns.com/0005.html

Tommy tornado · January 19, 2007, 07:39:25 PM

Correct apparently Bannerman's sold them as surplus for around $5 or so in the 1890's. Somewhere I had read that they saw limited military use in the Phillipeans.

Tommy tornado · January 19, 2007, 07:41:34 PM

Also if you can ever pick up a Rodgers and Spencer or Remington worked on by Tom Ball, I suggest you go for it. They are probably some of the best Cap and Ball pistols ever.

rifle · January 22, 2007, 09:19:01 AM

Tommy Tornado, who's Tom Ball?

Oldelm · January 22, 2007, 07:36:16 PM

Rifle,.......Howdy Bud,.....check out this article where Tom Ball is mentioned....

http://www.civilwarguns.com/9512B.html

....this is from the article....

QuoteWhile Tom specializes in complete rebarreling and accuracy jobs on Remington and Rogers and Spencer style guns, he will gunsmith any revolver. You can leave your gun with Tom for a complete accurizing job and he will ship it back to you in the off season, but he can perform minor handgun surgery at the Nationals, like he did for me, while you wait. For more information, contact Tom Ball at Ball Accuracy Inc., RD #1, Box 241, Millville, PA 17846

Tommy tornado · January 22, 2007, 07:37:31 PM

A now dead pistolsmith that worked lots of magic on '58 Remmingtons and Rodgers and Spencers.

hellgate · January 22, 2007, 10:16:23 PM

I'll butt in here about Tom Ball. He was one of the most talented gunsmiths associated and active in the N/SSA. He also started to dabble into CAS for a while and then was tragically killed in a car wreck. He was renowned for accurizing Remington and R&S revolvers for use in the N/SSA skirmishes. They would shoot at clay pigeons at 25yds. He did more than "action jobs". What little contact I had with him (email) lead me to believe he was a sincere, talented, historically knowledgeable, decent fellow I wish I had known personally. The guns he produced were very accurate and reliable. He was akin to the types like Rowdy Yates and Old Scout.

rifle · January 23, 2007, 09:17:17 AM

I thought I was in the twilight zone there for as minute. I thought,"Tom is alive? What's happening here?" Wish he was till alive. I liked him and spoke to him many times about the cap&ballers and his accurizing. He would put Badger barrels on Remintons for people. I brought out the fact that chambering reamers to open the chambers to the correct size for the original barrels seemed to work pretty well fer me. hee hee I don't have a lathe to turn threads on barrel blanks. I can actually say I've never spoke with anyone that was as well versed in gunsmithing cap&ballers as Tom.

He was a true professional and a good man. I, on the other hand would have been termed a "PREfessional".

I'm still sad he was taken from us. My method of reaming chambers with a four flute,straight flute chucking reamer came from Tom. He explained a spiral fluted chuckng reamer liked to try to pull itself into the chambers. I've used straight fluted chucking reamers ever since I got that tip. I think I remember his "Supreme" grade accurizing for a cap&baller. Barrel changed to a Badger barrel, dovetailed front sight,open rear sight,alignment of the chambers to the bore, trigger job. I think he added sizing the chambers to the bore too after awhile. I remember he had made a pilot barrel for Remingtons so he could line bore the chambers concentric to the barrels bore. We talked about the feasibility of doing the same thing for the Colts and came to the conclusion that the tolerances were too "all over the place" to make a pilot barrel to line ream Colts. I think it was decided that a bigger diameter arbor could be installed to fit tighter and a pilot barrel, that would have to be tight, could then be used. The chambers being under sized on the cap&ballers would make it more feasible to ream the chambers concentric to the bore. Anyhow, I'm doing up a Remington I bought from Cabelas. The casecolored,checkered gripped model. I have the barrel turned so the top flat is level now and installed a worked down steel dovetailed base blade type rifle sight filed to look like a front pistol sight. Came out good. I use a 60 degree dovetail end mill and run it along the sides of the sight that's upside down in the mill vise. That ensures the angles are exactly the same as the end mill that's used to make the cut in the barrel. After milling the base of the sight thinner(rifle sights for muzzleloaders have thick bases) I cut a dovetail in the barrel that is sized to make a "tight" fit for the sight and .052 deep. I hate blade sights with that ungainly space under the blade between it and the barrel. When I kiss the sides of the sight upside down in the machine vise to correct the as cast sight I run the end mill over the bottom of the blade fore and aft so the blades bottom is exactly level with the top of the base of the sight. That way if I adjust the depth of the cut just right and about .0005 less deep then the thickness of the base the minute space under he blade between it and the barrel is not visible to the naked eye. The sight can be installed then without the bottom of the blade marring the bluing on the top of the barrel under the blade but also not have that ungainly ugly space under the blade. I do the same thing installing sights on muzzleloader rifles I've built. I just think if the job is worth doing then do it right. Well, after the blade of the sight is tapered to get thinner as it goes to the top of the blade the sight is done except for Belgian bluing it and then doing the sighting in to have the gun shoot to point of aim so it's point of impact is the same. Next is the sizing of the chambers to be .003 more in diameter than the groove diameter of the barrel. Then the trigger job to eliminate the trigger creep and have the trigger break about 3 lbs. Next will be to lighten the mainspring so it hits lighter so as not to jar the gun when it hits the frame/nipple. I like to lighten the mainspring in the Pietta Remingtons by installing a Uberti Cattleman mainspring(goes right in) or by tapering the mainspring to get thinner as it goes toward the top. The hour glass method to lighten the mainspring is ok but the tapered spring is more my favorite. Next will be aligning the chambers to the bore by adjusting the bolt some if it's needed. Next....ensure the holes are all the same in the nipples and the caps fit snug and tight and fully seated. Maybe lastly open the rear sight and square it's bottom some. At least make the bottom a u shape. More light. The rear sight sides in the opening will probably get a bevel to reflect light away from the shooter so the glare on the sides in the rear sight is eliminated. I do that on Colt rear sights too. Makes it easier to see the sight picture. Last but not least will be to go up the hill behind the house and shoot the ever living crap out of the gun and enjoy every minute of that.

Sorry about the long post. Too much coffee again ,Buds!

Tommy tornado · January 23, 2007, 06:20:10 PM

Quote from: hellgate on January 22, 2007, 10:16:23 PM
I'll butt in here about Tom Ball. He was one of the most talented gunsmiths associated and active in the N/SSA. He also started to dabble into CAS for a while and then was tragically killed in a car wreck. He was renowned for accurizing Remington and R&S revolvers for use in the N/SSA skirmishes. They would shoot at clay pigeons at 25yds. He did more than "action jobs". What little contact I had with him (email) lead me to believe he was a sincere, talented, historically knowledgeable, decent fellow I wish I had known personally. The guns he produced were very accurate and reliable. He was akin to the types like Rowdy Yates and Old Scout.

As I said "he worked magic", and it was a very tragic lose to the shooting community.