Increasing USFA pre-war accuracy

monoceros · December 15, 2006, 01:21:56 AM

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I have been researching the saa for a long time now and have realized that I want a usfa pre-war for its superb fit and finish as well as its all American construction. As this will be my first and last saa, (hopefully I won't get addicted) I am willing to spend between 1,000 and 2,000$ and would really like the gun to shoot sub-1 inch groups at 25 yards. I feel like this is asking alot from the gun, but I want something perfect that will shoot excellently throughout my life. My question is if it is possible for a gunsmith to tune the gun up to have this kind of accuracy, and what that tune up would cost. Thanks alot for your time and experience.

Doc Sunrise · December 15, 2006, 10:57:42 AM

The USFA SAA is manufactured to such great specs and fitted properly by their crafstman that a tune up will not help increase accuracy of the gun. It may help you as a shooter with a slightly lower trigger pull, but I found the 3 - 4 pound trigger pull to be excellent. Cylinder throats, forcing cone and barrel specs are extremely good already. I found that the USFA SAA's will shoot extremely tight groups for a SAA with the right Ammunition. Because each gun and it's shooter have very different characteristics from other combinations of guns and shooters, you will just have to experiment with different ammunition until you find the right combination for you and your SAA. Trust me, the USFA SAA is not where improvements are needed.

To review more about accuarcy, take a look at what Bowens states in his book "Custom Revolver". He uses USFA SAA's as a beginning base for some of his projects because of their quality in manufacturing. Good Luck!

monoceros · December 15, 2006, 01:52:56 PM

Thanks for the response Doc, I guess I am just concerned with the ransom rest results from rodeos and pre-wars, seeing as the tests normally say the guns shoot around 2 to 3 inch groups. On the other hand the usfa flattop target shoots sub-1inch groupings and I was just wondering if I could get such results out of the pre-wars. Thanks again for the help.

Doc Sunrise · December 15, 2006, 02:18:14 PM

I would want to know about the ammunition used. Bullet size, powder loadings, hand loads or factory loads really matter. Accuracy is more determined by proper throat, forcing cone, rifling size in relation to the bullet size and how well received the bullet is into the barrel, and whether the barrel is true and consistent after that. That is why 3rd gen Colts have problems. Have your measurements checked out in comparison to what ammunition you are using. Then check out your cylinder and bore alignments and timing issues. The norm for USFA SAA is they will check out, and that last bit of accuracy you are looking for may be in the choice of ammunition, caliber size, powder loadings, and barrel length. Good Luck, I know in either case you will be happy with your USFA SAA.

royal barnes · January 06, 2007, 10:02:23 PM

I think you are probably asking way too much from a single action revolver regardless of brand unless you are shooting the gun from a Ransom rest or some well supported stand. That might not do it. You would be most fortunate indeed to achieve sub-one inch groups at 25 yards either one or two handed, supported or freestyle. I have not found that current third gen. Colts have any more problem with accuracy than USFA's. It boils down to chamber diameter, inside barrel dimensions and matching those with a proper sized bullet over the most compatible powder. Good luck with your quest.

Virginia Gentleman · January 03, 2008, 03:50:03 PM

Current Colt's may have had their cylinder throats properly sized to .452-.453" not the usual .456-.458" like older third generation guns. The USFA guns have always had proper cylinder throat dimensions, but like any gun may prefer one ammo load to another. Generally speaking, the USFAs are almost always perfect out of the box.

Coffinmaker · January 04, 2008, 06:51:24 PM

Sub inch at 25 yards is tough to achieve with ANY wheel gun. As previously mentioned, maybe from a ransom rest or some other rigid type mount. There are just too many variables. Chamber alignment, chamber throat, forcing cone angle, trigger, barrel, bullet, powder .... and the list goes on.
Sub inch with the shooter standing on his/her hind legs doing the firing?? No. With s specialized gun, optical sights, from sandbags ..... doable. With a SAA or SAA copy?? No.
Now, IF you are willing to go the whole enchilada in your quest for accuracy, first take your broker to lunch. Make it a very good lunch indeed, because, first you tear the gun down to the frame, throw away the cylinder, cylinder pin and bushing (unless ruger) and barrel along with ALL the parts in the lock works.
A new sub caliber cylinder must be fit with NO end shake, custom cut locking slots, then it must be line bored to the the barrel in the chosen caliber and the throats cut precisely to the bore. After-market match barrel stock, gapped to .002 barrel/cylinder gap with an 11 degree forcing cone and a target crown at the muzzle. All lock work parts must be individually fit to the frame and cylinder (bolt). The new trigger must be fit to the hammer and "tuned" for about 1.5 to 2 pound pull with no creep. You'll need some really good sights.
The gun will now be very tight and the slightest amount of crud will screw it up functionally. You may now get 1.5 inch groups on average (out of a rest) with the occasional group at 1 inch or a tad less.
You will have spent a SMALL FORTUNE to get it built to these specs.
I would personally suggest a basic tune up on the USFA and then enjoy it for what it is. A tool.

Coffinmaker

Doc Shapiro · January 05, 2008, 10:53:30 AM

Out of a rigid rest (of the Ransom variety), my Rugers print a bullet sized hole at 25 yards. But they've had the following work done (and more).

Here are some things that you can do without breaking the bank.

Step 1: Find a very talented gunsmith. This isn't action work. This can involve some serious gunsmithing.

- Make sure the crown is square to the bore. That might mean recrowning, it might not.

- Make sure the frame is square. My rugers were not.

- Make sure that the cylinder chambers are slightly larger than the bore.

- Make sure the cylinder pin is as tight as it can be without binding.

- Make sure the locking bolt fits perfectly and is very rigid.

- Forget the forcing cone. You want a Taylor Throat cut into the barrel. This is essentially a very long and gradual forcing cone. It will give the bullet time to stabilize and line up correctly in the bore before engaging the rifling.

- Get a trigger job done. Nice crisp, very light trigger will help.

At this point, you have work to do before deciding if further gun work is needed. You need to develop a load for this gun. Experimenting with powder (brand and amount), bullets (sizes, shapes, and hardnesses), primers, and cases will be required for you to figure out where the best group is.

Once you've nailed your load the sights may need adjusting (turn the barrel for windage, file the front sight if it prints low).

After all this, if you're still not getting the groups you want, it's time for a line bored cylinder and possibly more drastic work.

Good luck.
Doc

Virginia Gentleman · February 01, 2008, 03:40:09 PM

In my experience USFAs come with far better fit and finish than does almost any other SAA or look alike with the possible exception of Freedom Arms and the yet to be evaluated STI Texican. The ones I have owned have not had the problems you describe. Rugers are some of the roughest guns out of the box ever, but they are built like an M1-A2 Abrams Tank.