Trailboss Powder Question

[Standpat Steve]

Howdy All,

I have recently started shooting in ICORE (double action revolver) matches. I needed a VERY clean powder-one that does not leave any residue in the chambers. I switched to "Clays" powder and am very happy with how clean it leaves the revolver chambers. There is nothing left over to interfere with the functioning of speedloaders or moon clips. The down side is that it is both temperature and position sensitive, which interfere with accuracy. If "Trailboss" were as clean as clean burning as "Clays" I would try some for a round of test loads. Anybody have experience with the cleanliness of "Trailboss" powder? 

Thanks.

[Judge Lead]

We had a monthly match yesterday (Sunday 19th) and a gent brought along some 38/357 loads as well as some 45's. The 38/357 loads consisted of NEW brass with approx 3.5gns behind a 125 grn projectile. The 45's were something like 5.3 grns behind the big lube 45 projectile.

The volume within the cases was substantial compared the the 'normal' powders used, soft on recoil and clean burning. My wife tried a 45 load and has asked that we start to use Trail Boss in the 44/40's with approx 150 grn projectiles. She was quite impressed with them.

NO powder residue, cases were cleaner than before and is quite a lot less position sensitive by all reports.

All I gotta do now is find out how much it is going to cost and hopefully it will be cost effective.

Hope that helps.

Regards

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Agree with the Judge.  Started using Trail Boss in August and am very happy.  It's not position sensitive as it fills over half a case, it's accurate, clean, and shoots to same POI in November as in August.  Soft recoil with middle of the chart loads.  Meters pretty consistent from an RCBS powder measure.  I use it in 44 Colt & 44 Special.

[Standpat Steve]

Thanks, this seems like good news. I, too, was thinking that if the powder fills more space, position wouldn't be as important. I think it's worth buying a pound and working up some loads.

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

FYI, Trail Boss comes in the same plastic 1 lb. containers as other IMR powders do now but, it's bulky enough that you only get 9 ounces.  The price works out to be about the same per lb. as most IMR and it seems to go pretty far.  The Gander Mountain near me seems to always have it in stock and doesn't inflate the price like some of the gun shops do.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

I'm using it in .45Colt, 38-40, and .38 Spec.. very consistent over the screens, and some really good SD's out of the revolvers. Loads I settled on are in the early mid range, fills about half the case or more. On paper during tests, quite accurate..............Buck
I'm loading it on an SDB and a PRO 1000, as well as a LYMAN 1200DPS...............Buck

[Standpat Steve]

Howdy Again,

So, all the replies are very encouraging. I went to the local store, but they don't carry Trailboss Powder. Went online to look at prospective loads, and none of them are for copper-plated or jacketed bullets. Is this going to be a problem for me? I don't mind working up a conservative load based on a lead bullet load. I'm looking to push a Berry's Mfg. 200 grain, copper-plated, hollow base round nose .45ACP about 700 fps. That would guarantee a minimum 130 power factor (which needs 650 fps with a 200 grain bullet). It's not a hot load by any standards-less than my SASS loads which push a 200 grain Lazercast bullet in .44 SPL around 775 fps. I'm hoping to get more consistency than the +/- 50fps variation I get with the Clays powder, which I fear will affect my longer range revolver shooting accuracy, but still leave the chambers clean for reloading moonclips on the clock. What do you think?

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Steve,

You will have trouble finding data for jacketed bullets with Trail Boss.  IMR developed the powder specifically for lead bullets in CAS shooting.  It's also relatively new and has been hard for some people to find locally.  You might try calling the bullet manufacturers to see if they have indeed worked up any data for jacketed.
Personally, I don't see that you're gaining anything with jacketed bullets.  700 fps is not fast for a lead bullet and the power factor will be the same jacketed or not.

[Standpat Steve]

Be-A-Triss Bandit,

Found some Trailboss powder today at a real gunshop. I believe that the copper plated bullets I want to use are much closer to lead bullets than copper jacketed bullets that often have different recipes in the load manuals. I agree with you that at the load speeds I'm aiming for there would be no advantage to using jacketed bullets. I think that copper plating bullets is just a different way of lubing them, instead of filling a lube groove in a traditional lead bullet-but that is opinion on my part. I hope to load some and sneak out this weekend and chrono them-if family obligations don't take over.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Probably what are referred to as "Copper Wash"..............Buck

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
BB

[Standpat Steve]

Howdy All,

I went to the range today with the chronograph, three new Trailboss loads, and the best Clays load from last time as a reference. I shot each load three times, in a group of ten each time, for a total of 120 rounds. I then averaged the three ten round results together for each load-figuring you would not want to plow through all the numbers. The Clays load ran very similar to last time, so while I may not be doing everything right, at least I'm doing it the same each time <G>.

The Clays and Trailboss loads left the revolver chambers extremely clean for each load, although the Trailboss load smelled funny, and could be identified by odor alone. The accuracy was acceptable, once the target velocity was achieved (650-700 FPS). What I don't know is this: the average extreme spread for ten rounds is 139.6 FPS and the avereage standard deviation was 43.86. Doesn't that seem like more variation than I should expect?

Next set of loads, I may measure each powder drop from my Dillon 550 on a powder scale, to see how consistent the actual weight is, in addition to how they chrono.   

[Skullyville Tom]

I loaded my first rounds with Trail Boss yesterday, but I haven't had the chance to shoot it yet.  I'm reloading on a Dillon 550 and found the Trail Boss metered very well, when I finally got the powder measure adjusted I ran 2 separate runs of 10 dispensations each, both runs came out exactly the same, so it meters very consistently.  I'm waiting for some different bullets before I do much testing, and when I've loaded some of them I'll run them through my chronograph.

Your standard deviation is a little higher than I would want to see, but sometimes that doesn't make as much difference as you might think in accuracy.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

I'd say that 139fps is pretty big. You didn't mention what caliber you were using. In my early tests in .45Colt, the bottom suggested load for 200's yielded an ES of 50.60 and an SD of 20.61 out of a 5 1/2" NRV. In my 38-40's, the bottom load gave an ES of 93.24 and an SD of 34.45 out of an EMF Hartford 4 3/4". I haven't gotten to test the load I've settled on in .45 yet, but the one that gave super accuracy in my 38-40's had an ES of 103.4 and an SD of 25.45. It did give a group at CAS distance of about 1 1/2" in ten shots with one called flier..............Buck