Will black powder wearout my shootin irons?

[TAkaho kid]

I have shot Pyrodex numerous times in my 32 years of BP shooting, and I DON'T consider it too be a "sub", since I BELIEVE  that I read an article by Hodgdon, the maker of Pyro, that said that Pyro is essentially BP with less Sulphur.  I don't think it's made from sugar like some of the subs, either.  [My terms "less Sulphur" and "sugar" are Very, Very general and don't reflect the additional additives or chemicals removed from whatever powder each manufacturer produces.]

Keep yer powder dry!!

Steel Horse,

Pyrodex is a sub. Its a chemical compound rather then a mechanical mixture. I am not sure if its sugar based or not I beleive it is (John Boy would have the answer to this one). However,about the only thing it has in common with real bp is charcoal. Most subs contain some degree of it.

The big issue with Pyrodex and some of the other subs are the percholates left behind. These little buggers are famous for eating away at your fine firearm AFTER you thought you had cleaned it.

On the otherhand POOR quality black powder can have issues as well. They can leave traces of potasium chloride, which is highly corrosive, in the fouling(a mixture of potassium carbonate and potassium sulfate) In todays world potassium nitrate is made by exposing potassium chloride to nitric acid. Its no longer dug out of a pit near Calcutta. Needless to say purity is everything. The Swiss and Schuetzen folks use 99.9% pure. I can't vouch for the others.

As for the potassium sulfate its benign and non-corrosive as is potassium carbonate when free of potassium chloride.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Ya learn sumpin' new ever day!

Never had any issues with corrosion AFTER I cleaned my gunz with Hoppes #9 Plus Black Powder cleaner.  I use(d) #9 + for most of those 32 years ... I've only used Ballistol for the last 14 months or so.  Besides the Ballistol stink, I see no appreciable difference - except you CAN use petroleum lubes with the #9 +.  (I keep stressing the PLUS, because some folks don't realize that it's different than regular Hoppes.)  Perhaps the Hoppes really is better especially for cleaning up after Pyrodex.

[TAkaho kid]

Steel Horse,

Percholates are akin to the highly corrosive salts left behind by the old primers. You think the gun is clean but they are still there.
Many years ago all I could find to shoot was pyrodex. At the time I had an old cap & ball pistol. I would clean that gun till my fingers bled only to find it developing rust in the bore and chambers a few weeks later. I have never had that problem with real BP.

Mike Venturio mentions the same problem in one of his books (Shooting Leverguns of the Old West) he would not shoot pyrodex in loaned or borrowed gun because he couldn't monitor it for corrosion afterwards.

[sundance44`s]

Had the same problems when i was useing Pyrodex P in my remmies ...flash rusting in the cylinders and barrel ....if i dried everything quick and oiled quick after cleaning it wasn`t as bad ...but if i let them air dry just a min ... the flash rusting would start .....after switching back to real black powder ..this went away ..it was like the Pyrodex was removeing the seasoning to the steel .  and real black doesn`t ....
Was wondering if it was just me or what ..glad to see someone else noticed that difference TKid .

[Cyrille]

I tried Pyrodex  'way back in the last century when it first hit the market, I didn't like it and went right back to the holy black ain't used any subs for the HBP yet but benn thinking about trying triple 7 is it a sub or the real stuff? It seems to be more prevelent than GOEX as most of the "sporting goods" stores carry it and not GOEX.

[sundance44`s]

Triple 7 is a world of its own ...not sure what i `d call it ...i don`t like it , its too stout , i haven`t been able to load it in a case and have anything good to say about it ...All i can say good for it is it cleans up easy .loaded up a case full in 45 lc and shot it out of my marlin ...just glad i didn`t shoot that one in one of my remmies ....all i`ll say about that .

[Ransom Gaer]

sundance44`s,

I have heard that Triple 7 is a good deal hotter than real BP and probably would have not been good for your remmies.  I use Goex Cowboy in my .45 Colt rounds in my Remmies and they recoil pretty good with lots of smoke and flame.  And my load is loaded down from some of the loads I've heard about.  And mine are still stout.  I keep my loads below the maximum that R&D recommends as maximum for their cylinders.  If I used Triple 7 I'd have to back them down even more.  I'll stick with real BP 'cause I can get it locally easily and I all ready understand how to use the stuff.  No learning the characteristics of a new powder.  And it is so easy to clean up the stuff.  So why switch.

Ransom Gaer

[Paladin UK]

I gotta go along with sundance n Ransom regardin 777 (YUK! ), I used it ONCE and it blew the  the ejecter shroud clean off the gun!! Reeeeeeeeel spooooky!!

Yessir used it once n then gave it away

Thar really is only one true powder n thats the....... HOOOOWWWWLY Black!!

Paladin (What lurvs the Darkside ) UK

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Not arguin' ... just relating.

As Litl Rooster can attest to, my 1860 which I bought in 1975 is in near perfect shape.  I NEVER had the problem you fellers did, and my 1860 has probably been shot MORE with Pyrodex than GOEX.  Again, perhaps the secret is the Hoppes # 9 Plus I've been using all these years.

If I'm not mistaken (and in this instance I'm sure) ALL firing produces residue 3-4 times after the initial cleaning, so this certainly could cause the Pyro effect you've noticed, TAk Kid & Sundance.  And probably others.  I just never noticed it - perhaps because of the cleaning solution and perhaps because I also often clean my guns several times after firing.  Hey - it's just one of MANY good things I learned from the Army.

[Doctor Bill]

Actually, shooting black powder WILL wear out your guns faster.  You see, once you get addicted to the concussion and Yugo-sized fireballs generated by real gunpowder you will find yourself shooting more.  You might even <gasp> practice.  Before you know it you will be putting a line item in the household budget for bullets or casting lead.  The guys at Powder Inc. will recognize your voice and greet you by your first name.  Before you know it, you will wear out your shooting irons.  But you will have a heck of a lot of fun doing it.   

Doctor Bill

[Cuts Crooked]

As moderator I felt it was not my place to comment that allmost everyone was giving false data.

Thank you Doctor Bill for telling the poor fella the truth! Your guns WILL wear out faster on accounta yer gonna be shooting a whole bunch more!!!!!!!!

[John Barleycorn]

Thanks for all the info pards, so do you all use BP in your rifle's also?  Is clean up same, or do you really have to strip em down to get at all those hard to reach places a Q-tip cant get to?

[Modoc]

John,

I only detail strip and clean my '92s once a year, even with shooting black and heathen.  A good load will not have much blowby (if any) even with straight-wall cases.  Generally my cleaning of a rifle consists of spraying a "solvent" down the bore and drawing a bore snake through a couple of times and then wiping off the obvious excess in the reciever.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

JB:

Yep;  pistols, pocket pistol, C&B pistols, shotgun, pistol caliber rifles and Long Range 45-70 rifle.  BP in all.

If you use a good quality BP cleaner (and NO, Ballistol isn't the only good quality cleaner available) you can spray things in the innards down with the cleaner and it'll be just fine for a Looonnnng while.  Dick Dasterdly often recommends Ballistol chased by a powerful blast of compressed air.  I don't have a big compressor like his, but I DO have one of those $20 types from Wal Mart that run off you car cigarette lighter and I also have a "jumper battery" that has several cig. lighter outlets that works fine indoors.  My compressor came with a needle for pumping up footballs, basketballs, etc. and I get sufficient pressure from that setup.

Enjoy!

[Arcey]

Moosemilked 'n ran a patch thru mine 'fore I left the range this afternoon.  Tomorrow, the cylinders from the revolvers will go in their Ed's Red bath 'n stay there 'til I'm ready ta use 'em again.  I'll patch out the bores of the rifle 'n the pistols then wet 'em with straight Ballistol 'n put 'em in the safe while the games on tomorrow.

Shotguns done.  Soap 'n water from a Windex bottle wiped out with wadded up paper towels.  Follow that up with Moosemilk 'n leave it wet.  Paper towel the thing again in the parking lot on the mornin' of the next shoot.  'Course, the Crisco in the shot helps there. Ain't sure it helps the pattern any..............

[Tensleep]

  'Course, the Crisco in the shot helps there. Ain't sure it helps the pattern any..............

But tha turkey feathers was nice an' done. 

[Arcey]

Chyle wouldah been so proud.......................

[Tensleep]

Chyle wouldah been so proud.......................

An' that's ah fact Jack!!!

[Doctor Bill]

John,

A slightly serious post about cleaning:  I use a 92' rifle in 0.45 colt which is supposed to be one of the worst combinations for cleaning.  My normal cleaning involves taking the butt-stock off and then cleaning from the muzzle with a couple of patches that have been dipped in hot soapy water.  The elevator, lever, etc. all get scrubbed off with an old toothbrush using the same solvent.  Rinse everything under hot running water then swab the barrel and all parts aft of the breech with Ballistol.  Re-attach the butt-stock, wipe off excess Ballistol and put the rifle away.  As some other folks have said, once a year or so I completely tear the thing down and really scrub all the parts but I may stop since the last three passes of this ritual have not really found any hidden crud or corrosion.

It may simply be lack of experience but I have not found what I would consider excessive soot in the "works" from blowback; a situation that is supposed to be rampant on this firearm in 0.45 Colt caliber.  I do use a fairly tight crimp on the bullet and like many folks here I load rounds using bullets which drag a huge amount of grease down the barrel.

Doctor Bill

[John Barleycorn]

Where do I find this ballistol stuff, and what is it?  Dad always said there is no stipid question?