Holy Black .22LR

[El Peludo]

My Grandson is learning to shoot, starting with a .22 single shot, and I though I'd start him out as a "dyed in the wool" darksider, but with his little gun, instead of a bigger one - smallest I've got is a .38/.357.  Anybody know of a .22 black powder that is available, or can I pull the bullets on some .22LR and dump the factory powder out and replace it with a case full of 4F or 3F, and re-seat the bullet?  Just a wanderin' mind at it's best.  Any thoughts on this, one way or another??

[sundance44`s]

Might i suggest a nice 32 cal cap lock front stuffer rifle .. it`s plenty small and the rifles are light weight .

[litl rooster]

 How old or big is your Grandson?  .38 spl with BP doesn't have much recoil. Now his hand size might make a difference.
  Sundance's, .32 front stuffer sounds good too.  Seen many a litln's with them at Rendevous.

[stepnmud]

I have approx. 50 slightly used short colt cases .38 cal. that use a standard size .358 bullet. I had tried them in a '51 Navy conversion and recoil  with blackpowder was so lite, I felt like I was shooting squib loads.  Can check Buffalo Arms for prices or I can sell these if interested.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Sounds like you want to start your Grandson right!

This is just my opinion, but since you seem to already HAVE the ss rifle, and didn't mention anything 'bout buying anything NEW, I'd bet that your idea of pulling the 22 bullets and replacing the powder with 4f (or even 3f) would work.  I went back just now to my work room to give this a partial try.  With my Inertial Bullet Puller (hammer thingy  a technical term)) I inserted a 22 dummy I made.  (These were made years ago by drilling a couple holes and dribbling ......
(Continued after having to shut down)    the powder out - yeah, somewhat chancy, but it worked  - 6 times)  It took 1 medium "rap" of the hammer and the bullet popped out.  From there, you could add the 4f.  The problem is A) seating the bullet AND, more importantly, compressing the powder; the bullet CAN be reseated by hand after running the flat end of a drill bit around the inside of the case mouth to de-crimp most of the mouth - BUT, compressing the powder may HAVE to be what you can apply by hand and B) my biggest fly in the ointment is RE-crimping the case mouth around that little heeled bullet.

Sorry my post quit in the middle before!

SHB

[44caliberkid]

No personal experiance, but sounds like a neat idea.  I'd maybe try CCI CB's, since they are only a primer to start with (or very little powder) just in case you set one off trying pull the bullet.  Then fill 'er up with 4F and put the bullet back in.  Factory rounds often use an adhesive to hold the bullet, so it may be tougher to get it out than you think.

[litl rooster]

  Now this by know means is to tell you to this, It is probaby not a safe thing to do. But speaking from experiance there was this kid many years ago who use to pop the bullets from his .22 shells with a pair plyers.  Quick twist and a pull.  ( this kid didn't know about buyng powder at this time by the pound and the man at the Hardware store said I he was too young to buy a stick of dynamite)
  Now that you have the bullet pulled and the fffg or ffffg in the casing what are you going to lube the bullet with? Then most importantly how are you going to reseat it on that Rimfired casing?  My concern would be detonating the rimmed primer, the above kid many years ago would wack them with a hammer to light his powder trail fuses    

I would like a .22 BP round

[Steel Horse Bailey]

"Sorry my post quit in the middle before!"   

See my original post ... it's finished now.

[44caliberkid]

How about a custom seating/crimp die from Lee?   Then there's still the problem of an accidental discharge.  As for lube, dipping the bullet in the completed round into melted BP lube ought to cover it.  The originals were outside lubed.   
  Again folks, we are just kicking around ideas here, experiment at your own hazard.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Yep!

[St. George]

Once RCBS/LEE, or any other manufacturer figures out that you're trying to do this to a rimfire case - you know - the kind of case that has the primer 'all around' the rim for detonation of the propellant - which normally supports a cartridge in the reloading process safely - I kinda doubt they'll want to be a party to it, since it invites a lawsuit of amazing proportions.

Outside lubricant and all - getting the crimp completely around the case could be tricky - thanks to the rim's propensity to 'want' to crumple and detonate - plus, the tolerances of today's .22's are tighter than yesteryear's.

Hell - if you just want smoke and dirt and stink and a crying need to properly clean the weapon - buy him some Russian-made .22 ammunition...

If you want to start him out - then here's a thought.

Why don't you and he buy a good-quality muzzle loading rifle kit from Dixie Gun Works, and do the work together?

No doubt, once it's finished - he'll cherish it forever - plus, you'll be able to teach him about hand tools, craftsmanship and some firearms history, to boot -and teaching him to hunt with a muzzle loader will also teach him that patience equals accuracy.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

St. George, what a capitol (al?) idea!

Whie my post suggested a POSSIBILITY, yours is right on target ... as usual.

I'm not sure that he wants to buy a new weapon JUST to fire 22s, but buying one of those "squirrel gun" kits in 22, 25, 30 or 32 cal, then building what probably end up as a personal keepsake/tresaure miight just be the ticket.

[sundance44`s]

There`s some good lessons to be had in loading a front stuffer with the black powder too . ( building that just right load with it , would prove usefull in latter years )

[St. George]

Not to mention the pride in his voice when he tells 'his' young son one day - as he's handing it to him for his lessons - 'Your Great-Grandpa and I made this rifle together...'

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

I have a thought and it mightr be cheaper than the 22Lr in the long run.  Buy a H&R Handyrifle in 22 Hornet, buy the 37 grain roundnose mould from Lyman and turn it into a 22 WCF by loading black.  The original 22 WCF was the same case as the later 5.6X37R in Europe and the later 22 Hornet.

[El Peludo]

Thanks for all of the input, gents.  Like I said in the original post, just a wandering mind at work.  Like Li'l Rooster, I used to know a kid who pulled the bullets from .22s, too.    It's just a subject for discussion, though; I'd seriously be concerned about the possibility of setting one off if the rim got tweaked just so, so I will let my mind wander off somewhere else for a while.  I do like the idea of a front stuffer, or the .22 Hornet; but, since I only get to see him for a short time, two or three times a year, well, ---------------   For now, we'll just go pop off a bunch of regular ol' .22s - gots a couple of bricks on the shelf, just a'waitin'.    Oh, yeah, he does have his own rifle, one of those old Ithica single shot lever guns, that resides in Pa's safe.

[Delmonico]

Buy a Hornet anyway, they are to much fun not to have one anyway.

Original Low-Wall Springfield Amoury Target barrel, built in the 40's with a K-12, more fun than anyone should be allowed to have.



Do they still make the small roller carbines in 22 Hornet?  That would be awsome.

[sundance44`s]

A young`in can shoot up a case of 22 `s real fast ..lol  On the other side glad to know i`m not the only that did expermients with the 22 bullets as a kid ....WE`ll have to keep those storys for the camp fire tales..  listed under DON`T TRY THIS AT HOME !  

[deucedaddyj]

Me and my buddies use to wait untill about 11:00 P.M. on July 4th, then we'd go buy all the fireworks we could afford. Since, everyone was trying to get rid of that last minute stock, we usually made a pretty good haul.

One day someone had the great idea to cut open all the artillery shells and pop rockets and pour the powder into a plastic mayo jar. After adding a wick, we took it out to the creek and let it rip. It made a pretty good size explosion, but the real pride was in the boom. It was so loud, people heard it for miles around. Of course, we couldn't hear anyting for a couple hours.

As kids, we all think we're invincible.

[litl rooster]

  Sundance, I must be a youngn' I still love shooting my J.C. Higgins .22 revolver    Had one of them Ithica Levers action single shots, at one time they were sure fun to shoot also.