how flat does a bullet metaplat have to be

[nowonder_1999]

Does anybody out there shoot the RCBS adjustable .520 mold? I worry that it looks a little to pointy for the magazine. Hate to bother you. I'm new at this Spencer thing, and I'm very new at forums like this one. I can't even figure out how to ask a question. I'm loading for an original 1865, converted to centerfire. The starline brass is working fine. The barrel slugged .518. The groups I got with the Lee .515 350 grain flat nose mold at 50 yards were great, but I got the RCBS adjustable mold in .520, and sized it down to .519, (pure lead). I want to know how much of a point on a bullet is too much. The RCBS mold (from S&S) has a point almost exactly the size of a primer. Much bigger than that, and I'll worry about feeding from the magazine well. and I worry about magazine explosions.

Do any of these guys shoot the RCBS djustable .520 mold? Can you help me post this question, or direct me to where it has been answered already? Thanks for the help.

Thanks for any help you can send along to me!

Nowonder_1999

[Two Flints]

Nowonder_1999,

The bullet labeled C is a 56-50 Spencer.  Flat nosed, as an example!

[geo]

be sure that the bullet follower in the spring loaded stock insert is not the original. it too is too pointed for center fire. you should be able to get the center fire follower from the same place you got the center fire conversion. also, in an original load on the light side justin case. good luck, geo.

[Two Flints]

NoWonder_1999,

Like Geo suggested here is the link to the S & S Firearms catalog for the centerfire follower:

http://www.ssfirearms.com  Click on download catalog, and then select "gun parts" and page 46 for illustrations of Spencer parts.

Two Flints,

[nowonder_1999]

I got a new follower. it is almost a hollow point, that does not even contact the primer. I'm nosing around here because Phil of S&S said some of you guys use the RCBS adjustable mold. I'll study up on the picture posting part. I've shot 2 loads so far, 35 grains by volume of pyrodex RS, and 40 grains by volume of pyrodex RS. Did not get the Chrono out, but based on my muzzleoader experience I'd be suprised if it was over 1000 fps. Shut down those .223 guys though. and the mosquitoes. I loaded more up at 40, with an overpowder wad, as the bullets are a little small (.515 in a .518 bore) and got moderate compression on the powder. With a little tinkering, I can see 1" groups at 100 yards. The bore is not good, but the last 6" is. Has anybody ever had a barrel sleeved?  what does it cost?  A kidney?

I'll tell you this much, it is a sweet casting adjustable mold. 3rd or 4th  bullets were dropping out like jewelry. The hollow base plug could not have worked better. It is a nose pour mold.  The lightest bullets I've cast are 265 grains, the heaviest was well over 500. One of my sharps buddies expressed interest in that. If the bullets feed in the magazine (I've got some blanks to buffer them with) I may take it down to the automotive machine shop, with a pizza, at lunchtime, and have 0.010 ground off the top of the mold. That should get me a metaplat (metaplate?) beyond doubt.

I have seen a lot of posts about customizing molds, from guys shooting new 56-50's. Why the heck don't you guys get the Lee 350 gr .515 mold? it drops two at a time, and my only complaint is I need .520, to lube and size down to .519 or so...

keep 'em coming... I need something that is round and rolls, I know some of you guys must have a wheel. I don't have enough time to re-invent something you guys know. I'd rather be shooting.

[Bead Swinger]

You mention that you are getting good groups at 100yds, but have a rough bore, save the last part toward the muzzle...
On first reading, this seems absurdly counter-intuitive. One would expect a rough bore to also be decidedly more varied in its shooting performance.

My (late SN) rifle is similar, only the pitting is only right back in front of the chamber.  However, I do have what appears to be machining marks midway through the barrel, and it really does not like to get clean in the lower half of the barrel.

Somewhere, I read that the diameter of the barrel on original Spencers is slightly larger at the chamber, and smaller at the muzzle.  If this is the case, it would make a lot more sense why you have a rough bore and yet are acheiving good accuracy - and in mine as well.  The ball is not grabbing the rifling tighly (and hence not being disturbed much by the pitting, etc.) until it gets toward the business end.  By then it's both grabing and sealing, and getting a nice consistent spin, and pressure as well, and hence reasonable accuracy.

I'm no balistics expert, nor do I even know if my theory (smaller muzzle diameter) is true.  But it would appear to match both your and my own annecdotal evidence.  This may be worth moving to another thread to let others weigh in.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Why the heck don't you guys get the Lee 350 gr .515 mold?

One word: lube. That bullet doesn't carry enough for sustained BP shooting per my experiences. That's why I use the Rapine 350-T mould. 

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Most of the major barrel manufacturers make blanks with a taper from chamber to muzzle for centerfire target barrels.  Seems to make sense as a bullet swaged at the leade would become oversize and allow gass cutting at the muzzle if the taper went the other way.  Lead and BP are a different world, though.  My "wall hanger" is beautiful and shiny halfway up but pitted, oversized, and has little rifling the last 8 inches or so.  It won't stay on paper at 25 yards.  I decided not to alter an original and retired it to decorator.  Hence, I watch Spencer threads but, can't count myself as a shooter.

BB

[geo]

methinks this reply first went astray. check the scorrs website. grapeshot on page 6 about half way down mentions a norman johnson, high plains reborring, 243-14th ave. nw, turtle lake, nd did a barrel sleeve for him. i spoke to grapeshot today at the range and he doesn't mind my passing this on in his name. good luck. geo.

[geo]

p.s. bevel the cartridge rim top and bottom slightly for a smoother magazine feed. before you load it up, of course. geo.

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Useful info gentleman and I didn't even ask the original question.
Thank you,

[Black River Smith]

nowonder,

I cannot find that Lee 350gr bullet mold on the Lee website.  Do you have a # for it?  I can say I have never seen a 50 cal that small from Lee.  That is why some of us cut down the 450gr and 500 gr molds.

Is it a muzzle loading bullet or a REAL bullet?

Thank for the info.

[nowonder_1999]

http://www.lodgewood.com/accessories.htm

it lists a 515 2 cavity lee mold. Mine has 515 on the side, and 515 handwritten on the box. Appear to be limited quantity. This is where I got mine.

They are not the REAL, but are real rifle bullets. 3 lube grooves.

can't post pictures bigger  than 100Kbytes... right?

[Black River Smith]

Thanks for the info and link.  You are right it appears to be a special run item for that company.  Sure wish they had a picture on the website.

Yes, you are correct the max is 100 Kb.  I have a hard time with that limit.  I have only posted about 5 pictures on this site.

Once again thanks for the added possibility.

[Two Flints]

NoWonder_1999 & Black River Smith,

Send me your photos and I will resize them to fit properly on SSS.  Send them as Email attachments to fsgrand2@fairpoint.net.  I will then add the photos to whatever text you decide to post.  Just let me know the post is coming so I can get ready for it.

Two Flints

[nowonder_1999]

I found a recommendation in another thread that suggested the metaplat be at least 0.250". That sounds like a lot, but given the consequences I think I'll get the mold ground.

Got some more targets, I'll take some pictures on a low resolution setting, and see if they post. I put 100 rounds through it. Scrubbed the bore with soap and hot water, using a 50 cal jag and a fiberglass rod. The bore never looked better. Even the rough spot seemed to be far better. My bore may not be as bad as I thought. The rifling even looked more pronounced.

Stabler cutoff is driving me nuts. I'm going to put a friction washer under it, or under the screw head. The firing pin in my S&S block seems pretty far off center. I wonder if I bent it horsing a cartridge into the chamber with the hammer down. I assume the pin was protruding. I actually had a round that failed to fire. Went off the second time though. Primers arre old. Been away from my reloading for a while, trying to get a personal life. Now I've got a girlfriend who let me set up my reloading bench in her garage. She even uttered those magic words....  "You need a gunsafe...but keep it under 65" wide....."

I also figured out that other comment about rounding off the top of the rim. It means the leading edge of the rim of the cartridge on it's way into the chamber. Makes sense.

The targets, If I can get them posted, show an excellent example of stringing due to fouling. I've never loaded Black Powder into cartridges before. Even the pyrodex makes an unholy mess. I swabbed the bore a few times. Had to back the chronograph way back. I think the wad was bothering it too. I got readings as high as 1650, and as low as 350. The ones I believe were 1100 - 1000 with the light bullets (285 grains). Chores are calling..

[nowonder_1999]

ah-ha

told you it was purty. just pointy

[nowonder_1999]

that hollow base above holds 5 grains of powder.....

See they make holes too. This was 50 yards. Did not use the magazine, as the follower got ahead of itself, and got pulled out of the tube. Back in now, with longer retaining screw.