Old time dyes: a How_to

[PAMuzzleshooter]

Question on Vinegaroon,

Can pieces be glued and sewn after using vinegaroon or should assembly be done beforehand?

Do you wait till the leather dries before soaking in Baking soda?

Thanks.

Doug

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Once it's black, the vinegaroon has done its work. I neutralize it with baking soda right away. Remember to condition the leather afterwards with EVOO, Lexol or something else to replace the oils that get leeched out.

As to treating with vinegaroon before or after assembly, I've done it both ways. After the leather has dried, you can glue it, sew it, mold it or otherwise treat it as before. After all, it's then just black leather.

Looking forward to seeing what you make with it.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

A good topic got started here about making a Pale Rider rig so I split those posts off into a new thread just for that. It can be found here.

[PAMuzzleshooter]

My roon sitting in the jar is muddy brown, is that normal?  Seems to me the last time I made it it was more of a grayish color.

I made it with white vinegar and steel wool this time.  The last time it was cider vinegar but I could not get the smell out of the leather, I used steel wool then also until the wool wouldn't melt anymore.  The smell in the leather was terrible.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I always make mine with white vinegar and, yes, it's murky. That's no big deal. As to the smell, mine don't smell but I've never used cider vinegar. It may also have to do with the leather itself. Some tanning processes can smell odd anyway then to add vinegar, uff-da!

[PAMuzzleshooter]

UFF-DA   Where you from?     Mom was Iowa raised ...Norwegian/Danish...used to hear that ALL the time.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

UFF-DA   Where you from?     Mom was Iowa raised ...Norwegian/Danish...used to hear that ALL the time.

My father was Danish. My wife is Swedish born in Finland. I hear it all the time, too.

[1961MJS]

Hi
I made up a batch of Pecan Dye using the dried husks that Mason's Pecans in Goldsby OK sells for mulch.  I'll leave the leather in the dye for about 12 hours based on my experiment.  I put Neetsfoot oil on the Left side of the sample and Extra Virgin Olive Oil on the Right side.  I'll try and get a picture in the sun and see if that looks better.

6.1   Sample 1
Sample 1 was in the dye for 4 hours after a half hour bath in black tea.
6.2   Sample 2
This sample was in the dye for 6 hours after a half hour bath in black tea.
6.3   Sample 3
This sample was in the dye for 8 hours after a half hour bath in black tea.
6.4   Sample 4
This sample was in the dye for 10 hours after a half hour bath in black tea.
6.5   Sample 5
This sample was in the dye for 12 hours after a half hour bath in black tea.
6.6   Sample 6
This sample was in the dye for 14 hours after a half hour bath in black tea.

Later

[Flinch Morningwood]

I've been using vinagroon for MANY years since I read a post by Chuck on this site.

I switched to white vinegar a ways back as the smell was much less.

I typically mix up about a half a box of baking soda in a couple quarts of warm water until the water is clear.  When the leather is as black as possible (usually only a couple minutes after I paint a liberal coat on with a foam brush), I submerge the peice in the baking soda mix until the bubbles stop coming out.  Then I rinse under warm water, roll the piece in a towel to get excess water out and, as it drys a bit, mold into shape.

When dry, I oil a few times lightly and sew up.

By painting on the vinagroon versus submerging, I feel like the submerge in the baking soda mixture goes deeper into the leather to better neutralize the "surface" vinagroon.

...but I've been wrong before.

[PAMuzzleshooter]

If dyeing both sides of the leather, does the vinegaroon go all the way through the leather or just on the surface?

Doug

[Marshal Will Wingam]

It depends on how much you put on. If the vinegaroon soaks in to the center, the leather is black to the center. Remember, you're not painting on pigment. The stuff causes a chemical change in the leather to get it black.

[Flinch Morningwood]

In my experience, it penetrates but not all the way thru when painted on.

It is probably a factor of the amount applied and soak time. 

[PAMuzzleshooter]

Thanks Will.  I questioned because of Flich's comment (below)

"By painting on the vinagroon versus submerging, I feel like the submerge in the baking soda mixture goes deeper into the leather to better neutralize the "surface" vinagroon."

Doug
=========
Thanks Flinch

[1961MJS]

Hi
The thickest thing I've done in Vinegaroon is a belt and it's black all the way through in 10 minutes.  Keep the baking soda fresh, apparently there's more acid in the roon than there is base in the Baking Soda.
Later
Merry Xmas

[PAMuzzleshooter]

Thanks.

Merry Christmas

[PAMuzzleshooter]

The roon I made has a "hard" black crust on the top.  I have scooped it off with a stainless steel spoon, but it has come back.   I scooped some off on the upper right corner.
What should I do with this? 
I have dipped samples in the solution and have gotten chips of this crust on the leather that I have to rub off.

[Cliff Fendley]

run it through some cheese cloth

[PAMuzzleshooter]

Thanks Cliff, 

I was wondering if this is normal.  If so, I guess I will have to filter it before each use.

[Cliff Fendley]

I don't know if it's considered normal but I have had vinegaroon do weird things before and get crustys in it. It's been a couple or three years since I used any since I generally used black skirting leather for black projects. Since my last batch got old I haven't done another one.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Yeah, mine gets crusty, too. Stuff floats on the top. I just scoop it off with a stainless tea strainer. Crap settles to the bottom, too. It doesn't hurt the way it works.