Question on .44 Russian in a '71 Open Top

[Bead Swinger]

I Recently purchased a Taylors 1871 Open Top (Early) which is marked as "44 Spc"

I've only had it a short while, and have put quite a number of .44 Russian rounds through it.  I have not been really pleased with the accuracy.  Some shots group well, some don't (50 ft). It does a lot better out of my hand than off a bag.  Go figure.

One thing I noticed was that all of the cases came out with a powder stain on (only) one portion of the case - not all the way around, but only about 1/5 or so.

Is there something about the load, chamber, brass or something that I should be looking for? Should I expect accuracy problems using a .44R in a .44Sp chamber? 

There are two loads that I've put through - a commercial 200gr (assumed .429) loads from place in KS, and a handload of 200 gr .431 on top of a 3.5 gr Trail Boss load.  The stains were noticed from the commercial loads; those were the ones I was attempting to shoot groups with at 50 ft. The handloads I used at a shoot, and they did OK.  'Didn't seem too hot.

Ideas or suggestions welcome.  I've never owned a brand new gun before, so I'm quite a greenhorn.  'Could tell you a lot more about56-56's and 45-70's than these little .44's.

Thanks

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Swinger,
Black Hills factory ammo surprisingly had very dark elyptical stains on one side but, not my handloads.  My handloads are barely over starting loads.  The factory loads printed very low below POA.  The chambers are round.  I can only assume the factory loads are very light and/or slow pressure curve and hence, the smoking and low POI.  I surmise, though I didn't do any testing to find out, that the cases lay in the bottom of the chamber and when fired, the top half is what gets smoke.  Just a thought, don't really care since I won't be buying any more factory loads.
Light loads are inevitably going to smoke up your cases to a degree.
BB

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Left something out.  As for accuracy, 44 Russian is not as accurate as 44 Colt in my 44 Colt guns.  May have to do with the bullet jumping farther before it leaves the cylinder, may be something else.  Mine aren't too picky about bullet diameter though I haven't tried any under .428.  Try 44 Colt or Cowboy 44 Special loads and see if it improves.  I wouldn't go very hot with 44 Special in an Open Top.  Thin cylinder walls next to the bolt notches and they just aren't designed for modern cartridge pressures.
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[Bead Swinger]

Thanks for the advice! The surmise about light loads is probably correct. I'll be trying out some different medium Trail-Boss loads, and see how they perform. This time I'll get a chronometer on them as well. If these results aren't great, I may go invest in some 44LC brass.

My next endeavor, after I try to work out a good hand-load (using Trail Boss) is to look into 777 and the 44 MAV Dutchman bullet.  But that's for a colder part of the winter.
Thanks again

[Grapeshot]

I've shot .44 Russian out of .44 Special chambers before, and, I never had a problem with accuracy.  However, light loads will produce some blow back and smudge up your cases in any caliber that utilizes a straight walled case.

The .44 Russian load is rather mild, even with bullets as heavy as 245 grains.  You will have to use your own judgement on what you feed that opentop.  .44 Colt cases are a little longer and will give you more bang if you load it like it's a .44 Special.

If you want lots of noise and smoke, try loading the .44's with 3fg or one of the Substitues like APP.  I use APP or Pinacle behind a 240 grain bullet and touched off by a CCI Large Pistol Magnum Primer.

If BP is not your thing, than stick with the manufacturers suggested loads from any of the reloading manuals geared for CAS.

[shooter93]

I noticed accuracy differences in both my Open Tops with the shorter brass. I blew some through just to see. I shoot them with the Special brass and they shoot well. I also shoot Unique. Granted it burns a bit dirtier but it cleans easily and I'm cleaning the gun anyway so who cares. It's not posistion sensitive and personally I've never found a powder that out shoots in in anything I use it in. Factoy equivalent loads are also low pressure loads.

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

I'm with Shooter93 though I've been using Trail Boss and IMR has data for five different 44 cartridges online.  Unique is quite versatile.  Don't put 44 Special loads in 44 Colt cases.  44 Colt cases are shorter and Hodgdon and IMR both hold acceptable pressures to about 10k psi.  Actually, their 44 Colt Trail Boss data is the same for any given bullet as 44 Russian with slightly lower velocity and pressure.
You can trim 44 Special cases to 44 Colt length but, why bother if you have 44 Special chambers?  44 Spec "Cowboy" loads will perform quite nicely in Open Tops and save you all the experimentation with case length and accuracy.  The case police won't be out on the range with calipers.
BB

[Fox Creek Kid]

The case police won't be out on the range with calipers.

The "case police" are only intersted in REAL Cowboys who are Darksiders! 

Just kiddin'. 

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

The case police won't be out on the range with calipers.

Uhh, I Always carry a pair of calipers to the range....& why would you want to shoot smokelss modern powders in these guns anyway? Like you said, you're gonna clean them anyway.......??

OCB

[Bead Swinger]

Last night I managed to get a few of the Trail Boss loads on the clock.  The results were not very impressive.

I dug up some old FF, and 21gr behind a 200 gr. .431 ball shot a lot of flame , but only clocked in just over 300 FPS.

3.5 gr. of Trail Boss behind the same ball came in at just over 700 FPS. which is about right based on the IMR charts.

Again, the grouping wasn't tremendous.  Should I be looking for more speed? or Less?  If I remember correctly, a number of the more 'accurate' loads listed for other powders tended to be in the 770-800 FPS range.

[Goody]

This is starting to sound like the guy that posted about his 44 Colt RM.The one that had the barrel sized for a 45. Have you slugged your bore? Scroll down to the bottom of the first page and look for a thread titled 44 RM Screwup.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I dug up some old FF, and 21gr behind a 200 gr. .431 ball shot a lot of flame , but only clocked in just over 300 FPS.

Fg would give more fps than that! Something is very wrong here.    Chronograph problems? If you're using a wad then sometimes that will skew the readings as will ejecta from the BP combustion.

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

3.5 grains of Trail Boss behind a 200 grain bullet @ ~700fps is about right.
As the Kid said, something must have skewed the BP loads data.  Or, you said the BP was old.  I think I'd retest with new BP.  All I can do is speculate about bullet weight and crimps, and speculation is guessing.  I'm waiting for the Lords of Darkness to rain real wisdom here.
BB