72' open top deformed primmers?

will52100 · October 28, 2006, 07:08:10 PM

I've got a 72' open top in 44 colt. The primmer deforms into the fireing pin hole and if the wedge isn't a little on the loose side ties the gun up. Would an aftermarket firing pin help? Primars are nearly pierced.

Not a real problem, but would like to correct it.

Thanks

Be-A-triss Bandit · October 28, 2006, 07:46:22 PM

Will,
Had the same problem with primers in my 44s until I change firing pins with ones from here: www.thesmithshop.com Totally cured it. A little pricey but worth it!
If you know another 72 or Colt percussion shooter ask them to show you about the wedges. The wedges on mine go in just snug, not forced or they jam the cylinder.
BB

hellgate · October 29, 2006, 01:36:17 PM

Will,
Another suggestion is to find a harder primer. The CCI primers are fairly hard whereas the Federals are supposed to be soft. Possibly a little flattening of the tip of the pin might make it a little less sharp.

As for wedge placement. I use a folded piece of copy paper that will give a gap of .006-.007" for all my Colt C&Bs. I actually bought a sheet of paper at a print shop that was .007" thick to have CAS "business cards" made from it. Copy shops have different thicknesses of paper to choose from. When I reassemble my guns I place the business card between the barrel & cylinder as I tap in the wedge. As it begins to bite the paper I'm set. Make sure that a strong hand spring (pushing the cylinder forward) doesn't give you a false "bite". With the paper feeler guage you will get a consistant gap each time. Figure out what the gap is that gives you best results and have a paper "feeler guages" made up.

Fox Creek Kid · October 29, 2006, 03:10:31 PM

Look at the breech face as you may have severe peening. It's inevitable. I had to have a 'smith/machinist make recoil plates for two early OT's as they peened severely and that was with BP loads only. The primers would flow into the "cockade" like peened recess and tie up the gun until the primers contracted enough to revolve the cylinder.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · October 29, 2006, 10:02:38 PM

Hellgate; Thanks for the tip about setting the wedges. I discovered that problem, with my '51 R-Ms and 1962 Police. I had to be careful about not driving the wedges in too tight.

will52100 · October 30, 2006, 07:10:50 PM

Thanks Guys, I'll check on a new firing pin. I'm using CCI primmers and I flattened the pin a bit, I was getting pierced primmers and that helped, but seems like the firing pin is too sharp/small. What's happening is the primmer is getting deformed and flowing just a bit into the space around the firing pin hole. The hole isn't piened though.

will52100 · October 30, 2006, 07:16:45 PM

Well shoot! I just noticed that I'm in the Remington section!

I'm at work and am lucky to be able to get on a gun site on the rig,

Sorry, will try to keep colt questions to the storm section!

Be-A-triss Bandit · October 30, 2006, 07:56:08 PM

"the primmer is getting deformed and flowing just a bit into the space around the firing pin hole"
That's a classic symptom of an undersize firing pin or an oversize firing pin hole. We know it's the factory pins 'cause it's sharp and pointy and replacements that aren't work ok.
Of course, I could be wrong but, this time I'm not.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · October 31, 2006, 12:00:57 AM

Will; Don wurry abaht it. Most of us can be ambidextros, when the need arises. A Colt in one hand and a Remmie in the other.

Tuolumne Lawman · October 31, 2006, 11:25:27 AM

That's OK pard,

I have a 58 Remmie with R&D in one hand and either an 1872 OT or 1860 with R&D in the other!!!! Then I havbe either a Spencer or Henry for a long gun, too.

will52100 · October 31, 2006, 05:58:57 PM

Thanks, I'm normaly a colt fan, but do have an older 58 that I cut the barrel down on and reshaped the grip frame just a bit for my big meathooks. It's fun to shoot and have been thinking of getting a new uberti 5 1/2" and putting a kirst or R&D conversion in it. The one I got now is from a gun show and is marked Navy Arms, and won't take Pieta sized nipples, think maybe it's an ArmySan Marcos? I would probably shoot it a lot more if I didn't have to use #10 caps and could use tresso nipples.

I'll get a new firing pin on order, thanks for the link.

Will

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · November 01, 2006, 06:48:26 PM

Ambidextros; How Sweet it is!

Grouchy Spike · March 08, 2007, 06:13:06 AM

Quote from: Be-A-triss Bandit on October 30, 2006, 07:56:08 PM
"the primmer is getting deformed and flowing just a bit into the space around the firing pin hole"
That's a classic symptom of an undersize firing pin or an oversize firing pin hole. We know it's the factory pins 'cause it's sharp and pointy and replacements that aren't work ok.
Of course, I could be wrong but, this time I'm not.

Be-A-Triss Bandit, thanks for that info. I'm having the same problem, didn't see it mentioned in STORM, thought that I'd check the Remmies to see if anyone had some suggestions. I had wondered if there wasn't some problem with the firing pin hole because occasionally the fired primer would back into the primer hole. Most other times, the 'high' primer would jam two shots later when the primer was at about the 5 o'clock position.

I'll give it a try with new pins from the Smithworks.

Grouchy Spike · March 08, 2007, 07:38:24 AM

Quote from: Grouchy Spike on March 08, 2007, 06:13:06 AM
Quote from: Be-A-triss Bandit on October 30, 2006, 07:56:08 PM
"the primmer is getting deformed and flowing just a bit into the space around the firing pin hole"
That's a classic symptom of an undersize firing pin or an oversize firing pin hole. We know it's the factory pins 'cause it's sharp and pointy and replacements that aren't work ok.
Of course, I could be wrong but, this time I'm not.

Be-A-Triss Bandit, thanks for that info. I'm having the same problem, didn't see it mentioned in STORM, thought that I'd check the Remmies to see if anyone had some suggestions. I had wondered if there wasn't some problem with the firing pin hole because occasionally the fired primer would back into the primer hole. Most other times, the 'high' primer would jam two shots later when the primer was at about the 5 o'clock position.

I'll give it a try with new pins from the Smithworks.

Just remembered that I had some fired cases with spent primers that were fired by my other Open Top (that has no problems) so I loaded them into the problem Open Top and 'fired' all six. The indentations into the primers were NOT deepened by the firing pin on the problem Open Top, so I don't think that the firing pin is the problem. And I've just sized the firing pin holes in the frames - both are the same size, somewhere between 3/32 and 5/64 (no drill bit between those sizes).

And the two firing pins appear to have the same shape, if anything the no-problem Open Top's pin might be a little sharper.

So the problem lies somewhere in the mechanics of firing a primer (even with no powder charge) and actions that immediately follow.

Frame to Cylinder clearance? I don't have a feeler gauge thick enough to fit that gap, but by stacking adjacent feelers on the gauge, the clearance is pretty close to the same.

And Ideas from the Remmies?