Poll: Revisit the Henry Big Boy. Should it be SASS legal?

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy,

In a nutshell.  This gun had it's chance.  It failed.. let's move on.
Regarding Henry Arms.. I will not support a company that uses such deceptive language and advertising, American or not.

Adios,

[J.D.Cayhill]

With all due respect, No. Major Matt Lewis and Will Ketchum summed it up the best that it is a copy of nothing. The Henry Big Boy would not pass a fifty foot rule let alone the ten foot rule. I hate to turn my back on an American manufacturer, but to build a turd like the Big Boy and use the deceptive advertising that Henry has about it's use in CAS just doesn't sit well with me.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Howdy,

While I'm thinking about it.. My issue with the Big Boy is specfically with the parent company and the advertising.  I think that SASS should be the big welcome mat of CAS.  They allow just about anything remotely cowboy and, in the future, if a company meets certain requirements (like not advertising acceptance beforehand) the guns should be allowed.

Adios,

[Harve Curry]

I'm all for it. Besides it's a rarity to have a new USA all American made rifle.
Half the guns used in SASS didn't exist anyway in the 19th century, so what's the big deal. Put it in  a modern category and support American gun makers, period.<.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Here's my take on that.. how about an American company doing it right.. then I'll support them whole-heartedly.
Henry ain't that company.  Adios,

[SGT John Chapman]

I'm with Big Hext on this one,............the rules for acceptable firearms was laid out,......plain and simple,.............if you ask a man to build you a 1400sq ft ranch style house and he built you a 2000 sq ft tri-level cause he thought it would suit you better would you buy it or tell him get lost...............

[Chilly Waters]

No, it's not a 19th century firearm design.  IMO, the Ruger Vaquero should be disallowed to but I understand why it was grandfathered in and the history of the decision.  Hell, I don't even like the 1890's guns and won't shoot them even though the gamers all do 

[Micheal Fortune]

Well it's a lever action rifle, nothing to fancy about it.  Buck horn sights and all.  Don't see no difference between that and anything else.  It has the right flavor about it.

I don't mind the RV's either, although you have a very distinct competetive advantage with them.  I don't chose to shoot them at this time but the people who do sure place better than me.  Seen a lot of Blackhawks out there too.

So I vote heck yes, shoot'em if you want to.

But I'm sure this debate will go on forever. It's not exactly up to snuff but like rubber tires on your gun cart, it should work and fit in just fine.

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

I'm glad it is up for a vote this year. I won't be voting for it because it is not a Henry and because of the deceptive advertising.

Why am I glad there is a vote on it? Because last year, the rule was passed that if something was voted down, it can't be readdressed in the following years. I like that.


AnnieLee

[Harve Curry]

In the 1980's all revolvers with coil springs were modern category at End of Trail. Rugers are to big and really far removed from anything like a orignal Colt or clone to be fair competition.

Just cause the hood shuts on the '68 Mustang with a original carbureted 302 or a new 302/5.0 injected and turbo-charged doesn't make them equally competitive.

But the cats already out of the bag and has been for a long time.

Action jobs as we have did not exist.
Short strokes did not exist.
Marlin 1895 as made today, the 336 model, did not exist. It was a square bolt gun.
Birdshead grips on single action revolvers did not exist. Just to name a few.

Starting a business and surviving is HARD.
Starting a new gun business is HARDER. Does anyone think about that? I'm amazed at the amount of hardnose toward this company because their rifle does'nt conform just so. Rugers don't either.

We need to support American Gun Makers and all the good that will come from it. It employs people in a city that's anti gun for petes sake.

The rifle will be fine in the modern category.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Harve,

I'm sure the so called Henry Rifle Company will do just fine with the other products they sell. Hopefully they will be around long enough to build a rifle that at least resembles a rifle of the Old West and not a tank, if they do, I will be the first in line to buy it. Not the Big Boy!!

Bill

[Pukin Dog]

Starting a new gun business is HARDER. Does anyone think about that? I'm amazed at the amount of hardnose toward this company because their rifle does'nt conform just so. Rugers don't either.

I'm sure it is hard to start a company and keep it running.  But the SASS rule book is/was clear on what is required.  Henry knew what they had to make to be eligible as a SASS firearm.  The onous is on them, not SASS.

If the Italians can make repros that meet the specs why can't Henry?

I vote no.  Heck SASS rules are watered down so much as it is, lets not totally dilute them.

[Col. Riddles]

The poll, thus far, is running over two to one against the Henry Big Boy. My pard BJD makes some good points in favor of the BB and others make some equally good points against it.

As far as the "deceptive" advertising, that many have alluded to here is concerned, let me say this. First of all there never was a "Henry Rifle Company" prior to the incorporation of the present company in discussion. The first practical repeating breechloading rifle, a .44 rf, developed by Benjamin Tyler Henry in 1860 was made by the New Haven Arms Company. The Henry was the forerunner of the Winchester, for New Haven Arms, reorganized as the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. Henry preferred to be called by his middle name. Thus most historical accounts refer to him as B. Tyler Henry. Henry was a gunsmith and engineer employed by New Haven. Oliver Winchester owned the company which was having financial dificulties and reorganized as the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1866. Winchester felt that Henry should be recognized for his achievement and thus named the new rifle for him.

In late 1866, the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, began manufacturing a vastly improved version of the famous Henry rifle, made by by its predecessor, the New Haven Arms Company.  The new rifle had no specific name at the time, but there were references to an "improved Henry". Later it became known as the Model 1866, or "66".  When enough guns had been made to build up an inventory, the, new model was introduced to the public Early records and catalogs show the Henry Rifle being listed as the Winchester Model 1866.  One Winchester catalog states, "The latest improvemeents consist of an entire change in the magazine and arrangement for filling it."

The new model contained a number of modifications to the Henry rifle. The Most notable changes included a loading gate in the right side of the receiver, a completely enclosed magazine tube, and a wooden forearm. The new rifle retained essentially the same brass frame, brass butt plate, and wooden butt stock found on the Henry. The 1866 was the first to bear the Winchester name. The early 1866 rifles bore the name "Winchester Model 1866  King's Improvement" on the side of the barrel. King was the employee who redesigned the Henry to load from a loading gate.

Having given you a bit of history I see no deception in the company calling themselves the Henry Rifle Company.

Now as far as advertising the Big Boy as a CAS rifle is concerned. When the first prototype was made and pics appeared on the company web site I spoke at length with company president Anthony Imperato about the BB & suggested changes. He told me that he had gone to a SASS match in New York state & was told by the shooters that they wanted a larger caliber version of the Golden Boy 22. The company decided to make it and first brought it out in 44 Mag because the original Henry was chambered in 44.  He also said that it was too late to make changes because of the time & money invested in tooling for the new BB.

Mr. Imperato assumed that the rifle would be accepted by SASS because of the conversations he had with local SASS members. We all know what often happens when we assume something. He should stop promoting the rifle as a SASS rifle suitable for CAS until (or if) it is accepted. I don't believe there was any intentional deception.

When I started CAS in '95 I selected the Ruger Vaqueros as my pistols of choice because of the price, forever warranty & strength. I didn't like the way the fit my hands and the weight. I soon learned that because of the light loads we shoot in Cas that I didn't really need the strength & weight & in 2000 I sold them and purchased a pair of the then new AWA Peacekeepers. The RV is not really a clone of a SAA but it does pass the 10 ft test. A friend that I recently introduced to CAS purchased a brass framed Rossi '92, (which Winchester nebver made) & it too passes the 10 ft test. From that distance or farther it is easily mistaken for a 66.

Since those two are acceptable for CAS perhaps the Big Boy should be accepted. The ultimate decision will be made by the TG's who should follow the wishes of their constintuents. 

[Major Matt Lewis]

What is all this hog wash about having to support a companies illegal inferior product because they are American.  As an American consumer, we have the right to dictate companies who want our business what we want.  Henry tried to cheat that premise.  We did not support New Coke, we did not support The Edsel and nor did we support a bunch of collective junk.  The Big Boy falls into that catagory in my opinion.  If Henry wants to compete then they should let the market decide on what they produce and not some oversized .22.  That my friends is the American way in business, survival of the fit.

[SGT John Chapman]

Yep ,..it looks like one of those cheap Chinese made toys you find in the Dollar Store,.......you know the ones that just aren't quite right........

[Boston John Doucette]

Yeah, Chappie...
Just like the Norinco 97s and SxS

Just out of curiosity... for those of you who refer to the Henry Big Boy as an inferior piece of junk... have you ever held one? Shot one?
I have...
... and I wish the Italian imports were as smooth and well made right out of the box as the Henrys I've handled.
I'm partial to 92s so I probably would never own a Big Boy... but some folks would like to use them in their favorite sport and shouldn't be denied the pleasure.

Insofar as not supporting the Henry Company: shame on you "gun owners" who don't.
In this day and age, EVERY gun company needs our support, whether we like the products or not.
All too soon we'll be saying, "Remember when we could buy anything we wanted?"

I agree with those who state the Henry should be allowed in the "Modern" category... just as the revolvers with adjustable sights are allowed.

BJD

[Big Hext Finnigan]

I'll tell ya again.. there are two issues.

I've handled and shot a big boy. The gun, standing alone, I'd accept in Modern or just as a regular match gun.  I don't want one, but that's my choice. 

As for SHAME?  The shame is on Henry.  I am amazed to see folks who regularly stand up for what is right and good giving this company a pass.  Again your choice, but I refuse to feel the smallest bit of guilt if this Henry company goes down in flames.  Who's crying over AWA right now?

Adios,

[Micheal Fortune]

You said it BJD!

I was trying to say it, but you said it better.

Also at your next shoot, go down the line and pull every stainless weapon there, everyone that's wearing blue jeans and every plastic grip.  

I don't mind any of these things by the way.  I always thought it was about going out and having a good time in a competitive way.

I don't have the big boy, but I certainly don't mind shooting against one.

Besides the fact that this THING is any ugly weapon,it just doesn't cut it.It in no way resembles a 19th century lever gun.If you like this this then maybe paintball is your game.

And opinion is an opinion, why is someone always trying to degrade, make fun or make less of another person who dont believe the way you do?

It's ok to believe what you believe, and it's ok to stress your opinion, you can do this without making fun of the person.

Now I haven't tried paitball myself, but who knows, maybe someday.  

[Harve Curry]

What a statement " inferior gun", because it's not a race gun made in china and modified in detroit. One of these days we're going to be fighting the chinese with the modern weapons they made from selling SASS/CAS's the 87's, 87's & sxs's they sold to us along with all the other neat stuff they market in the chinese dollar stores around the country. How many of our soldiers have already been killed with ammo & weapons of chinese manufacture?! Maybe even think past the SASS rule book it sure as hell ain't no bible.
Vote for Kerry and get it over with while your at it, is how I feel about it, it does all go together.

[SGT John Chapman]

Boston John,....The one I shot was rougher than a cob and the guy that owned it, when he shot it, you could hear him cussing it under his breath as he shot, he also said he wished he could get rid of it......