Poll: Revisit the Henry Big Boy. Should it be SASS legal?

[Marshal Halloway]

From the SASS TG Summit Agenda:

7. Revisit the Henry Big Boy. Should it be legal?

Action Type: Lever
Caliber:
.44 Mag /.44 Special / .45 Colt

Capacity: 10 rounds
Barrel Length: 20'' octagonal with 1:38rh rate of twist

Length: 38 1/2'' Overall
Weight: 8.68 lbs.
Stock: Straight-grip American walnut

Sights: Adjustable Marble semi-buckhorn rear with white diamond insert and brass beaded front sight

Finish: Solid top brass receiver, brass buttplate and brass barrel band

[Stump Water]

At first I said no.  When people said, "Then ya gotta throw out the Vaquero too" I said, "At least it sorta looks like a colt.  The BB doesn't look like nuthin'".

But... what the hay.  I still don't like it peronally, but It looks "cowboy" enough.  As long as it doesn't offer an advantage, let it in. 

This is a game after all.

[Matthew Duncan]

No.

Vaquero was let in when clones weren't readily available.  Can't throw them out now.

[Manatee]

Yah, why not?  It's ugly, but mebbe the long delay will encourage the company to build a more period correct rifle.

Plus, if a pard already has one, why force him to sell it if he wants to shoot CAS?

But I wouldn't touch one a them with YOUR screwdriver.

[Doc Shapiro]

I still says no!  If a manufacturer can get any cowboy "looking" rifle admitted, you might start to see some come out with some real competitive modifications!  Do we want to open the door to the possibility?

Doc

[Manatee]

"Competitive modifications" Doc?  Like Shilen barrels and short strokes on a Ruger?  Har!  Physician, thy needs healing.

[Doc Shapiro]

No, not like that.  Those are things that can be done.  But different hammer/trigger designs aimed at particular categories, and other stuff like that.  Let your imagination go!  This might be a road that we don't want to go down.

Aside from the fact that it still doesn't meet the rule.  Allowing the rifle really means changing the rule regarding rifles that are allowed.

Doc

[john boy]

I said No to our TG's last year and still sticking with my story ...
Got this feeling the Chiz and the WB are still on the quick buck quest for more $$$ in their pockets from every Tom-Dick and Harry.
The objective has to be:  With the increased popularity of CAS, keep saying No to the 'well it has a lever action' and this will induce the manufacturers to build 'original clones' ... ya no flaming now with the Taurus Lightning; with good externals and a whole new ball game with the internals.  At least they have the externals and the price right

[Blondetta]

  I know folks say- it's advertised in the CC and it should be legal but I don't know- what's illegal about it?  I may be naive' about this and I'd bet there are others.  I know of 3 shooters who are buying them.  I guess I don't get what's good, bad or ugly.  

[Irish Red O'Toole]

I don't see it as the camel's nose in the tent.  The rifle does NOT present a competitive advantage to anyone.  It's a lever-action, exposed-hammer, pistol caliber rifle.  If someone else down the road presents a rifle along the lines Doc is suggesting, then let the TGs take a long and hard look at it.  Support the manufacturers that supoprt the sport.  "Let it in" is my vote.

[Terry]

I'll vote with Doc on this one. 

There has to be limits.....shoot, I have a design background in paintball...I could put a 12 gram Co2 in the butt, lifting the lever off an actuator would power a ram to run a toggle system action...bottom line, 1/8" stroke and none of it would show on the outside of the rifle.....there has to be limits, both on authenticity and modifications.

[Silent Joe]

Why not, it is a CAS caliber gun.
So, when they will have it, let they do so

[Boston John Doucette]

Yup... let it in.

It looks and functions "cowboy"... and there are a hell of a lot of people playing cowboy in this sport who've never sat a horse, held a rope, smelled a cow on a hot summer's day or faced a loaded weapon muzzle-on.
But THEY look and function "cowboy" for a short time each month...

And for crying out loud... it's not as though every Tom, Dick and Harry is gonna run right out and buy one!
Jeez, gimme a break!
With the ticket price on the Big Boy, a fella could buy TWO EMF Model 92s, a good used '73 or '66.
There are those who want to own the rifle and want to shoot it in CAS--  so why not let them?

The RIFLE isn't going to give a shooter an advantage or beat another shooter... only practice will do that.

BJD

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

No,
It is not a HENRY anything!! Instead of building this gun, they could have as easily built a copy of the Improved Henry (the 1866). But they chose to build a clunky rifle that doesn't resemble anything. The Rugers unfortunatlely were grand fathered into SASS at a time when they were just about the only thing in town.

[SIR WILLIAM]

I'm against it.  SASS keeps reconsidering the Henry ONLY because of Henry advertising revenue.  The loading system is a poor and possibly unsafe design.  Genuine Henry rifles must be loaded with due regard.  The Henry BB is NOT a CAS rifle.  It is a clunky looking hunting rifle.  I'm against it.

[Major Matt Lewis]

This is what I told one of my TG's on why it should not be legalized.  He did not agree with me:

First, thank you for asking.  I am sure that it is functionally good to go.  I am opposed for two reasons.  The first is simple the second is more complex.  I do not feel it is a close enough reproduction of anything pre-1900.  If you look at the yellow boy or a Henry, real or Italian, I do not think that the ten foot rule would hold.  I do believe at 10 feet, it would be real hard for a RV or a Colt Cowboy not to pass the 10 foot test. 

The second reason is more of a principled statement.  Henry knew the SASS and NCOWS rules and requirements before they developed the Henry.  I believe that Henry blatantly disregarded them because they could develop a more inexpensive product and still tried to actively market them to the CAS community.  If we let them have a "pass" on the Henry Big Boy then what will that tell other manufactures.  We can not let the manufactures dictate to us what we will shoot.  It has to be a market driven situation instead of a product driven situation.  That gives us as shooters and as CAS participants more power in the relationship.  We have rules, Henry did not abide by them.  We can not reward them for that.

[Major Matt Lewis]

No and here is what I told one of my TG's.

First, thank you for asking.  I am sure that it is functionally good to go.  I am opposed for two reasons.  The first is simple the second is more complex.  I do not feel it is a close enough reproduction of anything pre-1900.  If you look at the yellow boy or a Henry, real or Italian, I do not think that the ten foot rule would hold.  I do believe at 10 feet, it would be real hard for a RV or a Colt Cowboy not to pass the 10 foot test. 

The second reason is more of a principled statement.  Henry knew the SASS and NCOWS rules and requirements before they developed the Henry.  I believe that Henry blatantly disregarded them because they could develop a more inexpensive product and still tried to actively market them to the CAS community.  If we let them have a "pass" on the Henry Big Boy then what will that tell other manufactures.  We can not let the manufactures dictate to us what we will shoot.  It has to be a market driven situation instead of a product driven situation.  That gives us as shooters and as CAS participants more power in the relationship.  We have rules, Henry did not abide by them.  We can not reward them for that.

[Will Ketchum]

I agree with the Major.  Henry could just as well built a gun that at least resembles a 19the century rifle.  Something like the Whitney comes to mind.  They had their chance and instead chose to built this ugly gun.

It isn't like the Vaquero where we didn't have a lot to choose from in the early days.  We have plenty of rifles that are clones or reintroduced models.  There just isn't a reason to allow them.  They are a exact reproduction of a gun that never existed.   I also have a problem with their trying to connect themselves with the original Henry rifle.  They imply in their ads that there rifle is a direct decedent.

Will Ketchum

[SGT John Chapman]

No Sir, I don't believe it should ,.....they should have to conform to the rules just like everyone else should, yes my Uberti Henry loads from the end but it is an original design..............let them start over and do it right this time.............Thanks for hearing us....

[Harve Curry]

We should support this rifle. It should be allowed in a modern category.
We already have a multitude of guns from China, Italy, and the USA allowed for use in SASS/CAS that didn't EXIST in the 19th century so this rifle really needs to be allowed. Stop the nonsense.