Converting by volume to by weight ?

[Bristow Kid]

I am new to reloading and to BP shooting.  I have just recently purchased a RCBS rock chucker and a bunch of dies and other stuff used.  Included was a Ohaus scale made for RCBS its a Model 10.10.  How do I figure a by volume charge using a scale that measures by weight?  Is the a conversion table somewhere around or is it all guess work?  Thanks for any help.

Bristow Kid

[Adirondack Jack]

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

That'll give ya what ya need.  You CAN weigh REAL BP, 30 grqains is 30 grains weight, etc.

But subs ya need to figure it out.  Generally the subs will weigh less, on the order of 7/10ths what the volume equivalent is.  The chart helps.

[Bristow Kid]

Thanks Jack it was helpful but maybe I need to be specific about what I am doing.  I am loading .45-70 with Goex cartrige shoot a 500 gr spitzer or 520 gr semi spitzer  these are for long range silouhette and buffalo matches.  that load data Jack I think was for shotgun loads but its a start and I thank you very much.

[Pettifogger]

Not exactly sure what you are asking, but if you are using real BP and the load data calls for 50 grains by volume of BP, then you can use your scale and weigh 50 grains of powder.  What the loading manuals are usually referring to is using a powder measure to dispense the powder.  You set the measure to 50 grains and it will throw a volume of powder that if weighed would be approximately equal to the weight set.  (Even real BP varies in weight for a given volume from brand to brand, grain size, and even batch to batch of the same brand.)  Since BP has nowhere near the pressure of smokeless, a little variation in weight is meaningless as long as the case has no air space.  For the subs, you use the same weight setting on the measure and just fill it up.  It won't weigh 50 grains BUT is the same volume as 50 grains of real BP.  Since subs are used on a volume for volume basis as real BP and not the actual weight everything works out OK.  If you are shooting long range you probably want to use a wad between the powder and bullet.  The best way to work up a load is to dump enough powder in the case so that when you add the wad and then seat the bullet you have about 1/8" compression on the powder.  The actual weight of the powder is irrelevant.

[sundance44`s]

Bristow Kid , if your going to load black powder or a sub in yer 45/70 you`ll need to buy a drop tube ..expecially loading the 500 + gr bullets .. Cabelas sells one .. or you can make one and save a few bucks .( with out useing a drop tube ya won`t be able to get much powder behind those heavy bullets )
Been expermenting with 45/70 loads myself .. mostly in the 405 gr bullets ... my old shoulder can`t take the recoil of the 500 gr bullets didn`t take me long to figure out that one ..lol 

[Hell-Er High Water]

Bristow,

If you look in the BROW forum, under the topic "Share Your 45-70 BP Loads" there are several different "Pet" loads reported by several members that should give you a good starting point for 45-70 BP loading.  There is a lot of other good info scattered throughout the BROW forum also.  Check it out and maybe you can find somthing of use to you.

Good shooting and keep us advised on your progress and results.

HHW

[hellgate]

See Captain Baylor's website. Maybe the article "Frontiersman for dummies" will get you to it by google. on the website he has a bunch of volume/weight tables for all kinds of BP & subs.

[Bristow Kid]

Thanks everyone for all your replies and helpful insight.  When I bought my Rolling Block the person I bought it from gave me the load data he used for it.  Thats gonna be my starting point.  But I will check out all the other information y'all have been nice enough to point me to.  Thanks again

Bristow Kid

[River City John]

Could also just work backwards. Drop a charge that fills the case to where you want it for the bullet seating depth, then dump it on the scale and measure it.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

The method outlioned by River City John is the easiest. It's what I do. Find a volumetric measure that pours out the best load, then weigh it. You can use anything for your volumetric load. A Lee dipper, an empty shell case cut to length, etc.

However, for precision loads in a single shot rifle, you have to be aware that Black Powder varies in weight from manufacturer to manufacture, from granulation to granulation, and even from lot to lot. For instance, if I dip out 2.2CC of Goex FFg for 45 Colt, it weighs around 34.5 grains. But the exact same dipper full of Elephant FFg weighs around 37.5 grains. For normal CAS loads that is fine. I achieve the same amount of compression with either load. But for my 45-70 loads in my Sharps, I keep my powder charge more consistant from cartridge to cartridge, always using the same brand and same granulation. The guys who are really serious about accuracy will stick to one brand and one granulation, and every time they open up a can from a different lot, they will requlify it.

The cheapest investment you can make for BP shooting is a set of Lee dippers. I think the set still costs less than $10 from Midway. It comes with a sliding scale that gives the weight each dipper will measure out with every powder under the sun, including the 4 granulations of Black Powder. However, as I said, BP varies enough in weight that I only use the weights in the Lee sliding scale for the roughest approximation. I keep a chart in my reloading notebook of how much each Lee dipper I commonly use measures out for every powder I have used. My figures seldom agree exactly with the Lee figures.

In point of fact, I use the volume measurement as my working load, the weight is just for reference.

May I also suggest you get yourself a copy of Mike Venturino's book 'Shootin Buffalo Rifles of the Old West'.

http://www.ycsi.net/users/mlventurino/buffalogun.htm

This book is the most complete work that has been published regarding shooting the old single shot cartridge guns with Black Powder. Mike has 2 separate chapters on reloading metallic cartridges for the old Buffalo guns, one chapter is general techniques, including suggested loads. The other chapter is comprised of tips from all the top guys in BPCR. Not surprisingly, not all the tips agree, but it is well worth reading. The book also has a chapter about each type of rifle, including a chapter on the Rolling Blocks.

While you are at Mike's site, take a look at his other 3 books. They are all excellent BP Primers.

[Bristow Kid]

Driftwood,
Thanks for the advice.  I already have and have read Mike's book.  It was an excellent read.  I have a baseline load to start with.  I will be using it as a starter load.  Its the load data given to me by the guy I bought the rifle from.  I will work from there on more precise loads.  Thanks again everyone for the help.

Bristow Kid

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Bristow!

There is one step in the loading process that no one has yet mentioned.  

Have fun shootin' them BP boolits!

Also, don't make the mistake I did:  For long range (it doesn't matter so much for regular pistol ammo as long as you are staying under 25 - 30 yds) MAKE SURE  you use bullets of soft lead, not hard-cast.  A 20-1 mix of lead/tin is about the hardest you should use.  Hard-cast bullets in your Rolling Block (or probably any other long Range rifle) will generally hit the target out to 100 yds, but they will produce lousy groups and over 100 yds the round-to-round dispersion will cause you to miss a lot more often.  

There ARE folks who have found ways to accurately shoot hard-cast bullets, but you won't find many who shoot them successfully.
I also suspect that they don't shoot past 200-400 yds, but that's just my opinion.

Yer mileage may vary.  Happy Trails!

Jeff  "Steel Horse Bailey"

[Bristow Kid]

Well gents my bullets from Buffalo Arms arrived today.  So I will be off to the reloading room.  I again want to thank y'all for all you help and advice.  I will be shooting these bullets this weekend at the CVR's Fall Buffalo Shoot.  I will report back Sunday night or Monday with my results.  Thanks again.

Bristow Kid

[sundance44`s]

good luck at the shoot this weekend Kid .. you`ll probally get some good tips around there too . Most B/P shooters do share what they learned the hard way ..most helpful .

[Bristow Kid]

Sundance they already have been very helpful.  I have shot with them all summer using smokless rounds.  Which has really sucked cause the smokless don't BOOM like a good ol BP round.

[Bristow Kid]

I am now converted to the Darkside fellars.  I shot my first buffalo shoot this weekend with bp and loved it.  Them smell of burnt powder the smoke and the flames.  What a fun way to shoot.  I shot about my normal scores once I got my sight settings corrected for the BP.  only problem i had was some chamber fouling because I didn't use my blow tube enough.  used it the next herd and had no problems.  All my CAS guns will soon be shooting BP and never goin' back to that evil smokeyless.

P.S. A tip to all new BP shooters when the wind is blowing in your face don't suck air through your blow tube while its in the gun.  BP shoots cool and smells great but tastes terrible

[sundance44`s]

Nice going there Kid / AW the dark side has claimed yet another .........

[Doctor Bill]

Hi Bristow,

I happen to shoot BP both in my CAS guns and in my 45-120 (yeah, I'm one of those nut cases) rifle.  You don't have to be nearly as careful with the CAS loads as you do with the BPC stuff.  The folks that are recommending the Lee dippers are right.  I have a Dillon press set up with a metal funnel in the place of the normal powder measure and just use the 2.2 CC dipper to throw a charge of ffg into the case.  For your main match ammo you don't need to worry about drop tubes, poly versus fiber wads (or any wad in some cases), exact measurement of powder, sizing your own powder, etc.  Just be sure you use a soft lead round that hauls enough grease down the barrel and blast away. 

Doctor Bill

PS I have a copy of the Buffalo Arms catalog.  They are EVIL!!!  They are tempting me to spend way too much of my $$$$$.   

[Bristow Kid]

Doctor Bill you oughta order from them they sent me three more catalogs with my order like the one I had and the internet weren't tempting enough.  But they have excellent products and their customer service is excellent.  I plan on doing alot more business with them.  Cause I am hooked on the DARKSIDE.