NCOWS questions

[Trap]

  I got on this site for the first time today , thought there might be some out there who have questions but didn't know about the site or just didn't want to ask on the NCOWS board. There are alot of misconceptions out there about NCOWS. What is allowed, whats not. It's not as restrictive as you might think. In fact, we allow many guns that other outfit doesn't. I am the current national judge, so if you have any Questions..... fire away.        jt

[Major 2]

Though there is no active NCOW's in Florida... I follow the doctrine, as to Era cut off date, duds  & firearms.
But the question arises, perhaps covered, though a search failed to turn my answer up.

Gun Carts
(in another thread , one states, she has wagon pegged with ash etc. but the wheels would need to be changed)

I've seen all manner of carts , from modified Golf Bags to welding carts , various homemade wooden contraptions to fine Miniature wagons & stagecoaches even the odd 1908 Olds or Ford replica car in photos.

Aside from the saddle scabbard , blanket rolls and saddlebags the average person did not have a little trailer for his irons, in the 19th Century.
Nor did they use golf bags, or tiny stagecoaches ( cool as they are ingenious, I like the Cars but that wouldn't work for my 1872 time frame )
But with our, need for Shotgun, Rifle, pistols , (working cowboy class aside) any side match long range or pocket pistols... , with in a historic persona what's a person to do ?

Ideas I come up with,  19th. Century iron wheeled barrows , but what about the muzzle up requirement ?
An old longshoreman's wooden hand truck or maybe a modified sod buster hand plow less the furrow ?

Are carts an necessary ancorism we over look or is there rulling to cover them ?


And by the why... are there any on line plans to the Old cars ( horseless carriages ) they are just super neat !

[Trap]

Major,
  Each range has its own "guncart rules" a Couple of ranges don't allow them. If that is the case they are not needed because of layout. (handicaped excluded , of course) NCOWS allows guncarts as long as they look like they could have existed in the      19th C. I went to a shoot once and actually saw a plastic, John Deere green fertilizer spreader made into a guncart. Needless to say it wasn't an NCOWS match. The wheel barrow is a good idea . If guns are cased they can lay down. In the 1897 sears catalog there is a hand cart that is easy to reproduce and very easy to push over rough ground, just use a set of old iron implement wheels , The bigger the better.
Hang in there Florida will be ready for the "Old west" one of these days.

[Delmonico]

Major, when you get a group down there you should call them The Cracker Cowboys. 

Delmonico knows a bit about Florida Cowboys also, interesting history.

[Major 2]

A reprint of the 1897 Sears (out house issue  ) catalog would be very interesting any chance of a photo post ?

I am ( and then again not ) surprised , Florida with it's 19th. Century Cow history is not represented.
Read some of the accounts, stories and tales of Cow hunting , Crackers , rustlers , gun battles & feuds it's as rough and tumble as a any in Western States.

As a native born Floridian ( BTW a honorary Texan Citizen by then Governor Clemens ) I've studied the Cracker era.
The Mizell/Barber feud, Cattle Rustling , &  John Wesley Hardin's time here. The Old Cow town of Kissimmee is just 10 miles away.
Jacob Summerlin was a cattle king and supplied the Confederacy, his descendants are still living here as are the Barbers , Mizells , Kings & Parkers all cattle barons.
Bronson's and Partins , I visit with old Mr. Frank Partin the youngest son of Henry Partin, the stories he tells ( some times over and over )
are better than a Movie, you feel like you lived it !
Fredrick Remington wrote and drew for Harpers New Monthly Magazine many an article on Florida Cowboys .


Not surprised because so many here are from elsewhere, and have no interest in the history. 

[St. George]

There was a post some time back - I think on the 'Historical Society Forum'  - that dealt with Florida cowboys.

It should be somewhere in the back pages.

Lot of unusual and forgotten history there.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Major 2]

Yes Sir,  I read it I have the reprint... It was fairly good.

There are some good books , one " Florida Frontiers.. The Way Hit Wuz" by Mary Ida Bass Barber is excellent.
also "Florida Cow Hunter " The Life and Time of Bone Mizell by  Jim Bob Tinsley a good read.

"Thunder on the Palmetto Plains"  is a novel of Florida in the War years of 1863-65 and Cowboy Cavalry.

Back to Gun Carts...
I found Hand Cart companies of the 1850's
Handcarts, assembled at outfitting points in Iowa City, and then Florence after 1857, resembled carts pulled by porters in large cities. The carts had hickory or oak wagon beds and hickory shafts, side pieces, and axles.
Something along this line perhaps ?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b363/major101/p0000087.jpg

[Trap]

 Yes, exactly like in the Sears catalog!       jt

[River City John]

As to carts, most often the questionable point is modern tires.
I have seen people use solid disc wooden wheels, the wheels off a turn of the century bicycle or invalid wheelchair, or the salvaged spoked wooden wheels off a dog cart, ceramics cart used to haul greenware to the kilns, or the quaint lawn cart for landscape decoration that looked like a small version of a burro cart. There are also contemporary wheelwrights making well done wooden wheels.

I have been at events on two NCOWS ranges where carts were requested to not be used, yet allowances were made for those who needed to use them.

[Cyrille]

Major,
   NCOWS allows guncarts as long as they look like they could have existed in the 19th C.

Another NCOWS inconsistincy comes to light my my, according to this thread it is perfectly 'legal' for a gun cart to  look as though it could have existed in the 19th C. but some guns, rifles, revolvers etc. that even though they look like thay too could have existed in the 19th C. are outlawed my, my.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Cyrille,
Can you provide an example?

Slim

[St. George]

'My, my...'

An interesting reply to an honest question.

Was it posed simply to be mean-spirited and puerile - or can you provide accurate documentation beyond ill-informed speculation?

'FAQ' = 'Frequently Asked Questions' - and Trap's endeavoring to answer them - as are others - so purposely attempting to muddy the waters seems somewhat unwarranted, since folks have gone to great lengths to answer questions you've posed on various topics...

Scouts Out!

[Trap]

  Which one(s)?

[Cyrille]

Ruger Bisley, 1894 Winchester Trails end Henry BB etc.

[Cyrille]

Ruger Bisley, 1894 Winchester Trails end Henry BB etc.

[Major 2]

Must of hit a nerve  sorry

[Trap]

  Cyrille.
  The Ruger Bisley , While is a fine shooter, Is not a reproduction of a pre1900 Colt Bisley,  The newer '94 Winchesters are made with an angle eject modification to accomidate scopes. Again a 20th C modification. The old '94s are fine as long as they are in accepted calibers. The Henry BB is not a reproduction of anything that I know of.      jt

[Cyrille]

Everything you stated is true, however you said, and I quote"NCOWS allows guncarts as long as they look as if they could have existed in the 19th C." the guns mentioned also look as if they could have existed in the 19th C. My beef is that if the guncarts that "look as if they could have existed" are to be allowed so should the guns mentioned. I came within a cats wisker of sending in money for NCOWS membership but luckily I discovered in time that my guns were on the 'outlaw list.' If you care to check the verasity of my attempt I suggest that you check the posts of February, March this year. most probably in the NCOWS thread and/or the Shooters Meeting.
If you allow that red is an acceptical colour than you must also allow that blue is also acceptical.
This may be "Apples & oranges" but if an artical "Looks as if it could have been around in whatever centry is the subject of the discussion than it should be allowed. for example the S.C.A. allows the use of "recurve bows" made of modern lamanated meterial/ as well as more period correct bows because "recurve bows" were known and used in the Middle Ages. And one can't argue that the modern is not as accurate as the more period correct model it is moreso; yet it is the skill of the archer that determines the final outcome not the proficientcy of the bow/firearm used. No Compound bows are not allowed because they hadn't been invented yet. Yes, the wheel was around, anaimal tendons and the bow but they had not yet been put together and one cannot argue that the compound "looks"  like a period bow But the "model guns" of this discussion do and they have been around since the 19th C.

[River City John]

Many people have dual membership in NCOWS and other organizations and understand that different rules apply. If you would like to participate in NCOWS shoots, there would be plenty of members willing to loan you accepted arms to use, just as there were people who loaned them the proper tools to play when they were starting out. At least until you may decide changes or additions to your gun cabinet if you felt bitten by the bug were in order.
This is one of the little differences, and it's a point to make that an NCOWS member, as far as arms and equipment, has no problem transitioning into another organization (unless they prefer to shoot double actions), but sometimes it's hard to help people understand that not every firearm is appropriate when transitioning to NCOWS.

But, there are plenty of venues to shoot any type of firearm, and it sounds like you already enjoy that. So it must be something else that got you interested enough in NCOWS to lament your pre-existing choice of firearms.
Odd in that this organization's majority of members do not even belong to a posse. Must mean there is something more than shooting which has kept their interest.

We have an election coming up in the months ahead, and our National Convention in Feb. of 2007. (Even better, the Convention is moving closer to you, Cyrille, in 2008 to Kansas City.)
I invite you to come join us.

When I first started out, I did not have the right equipment either. But the people were nice enough to let me shoot with what I did have for a season, another loaned me a revolver. . .and I had fun bringing my gear up to snuff in a short time.
I have every confidence your experience will be just as pleasant.   

[Frenchie]