Euroarms and Pietta Sizes vs Originals

[Frenchie]

I have a Pietta Remington .36 caliber with a 6.5" barrel, and a Euroarms Remington .44 caliber with an 8" barrel. Side by side I noticed that the Euroarms frame is somewhat shorter and smaller in other dimensions than the Pietta. The Euroarms grip is also smaller than the Pietta grip.

I have read in a couple of places that the original Remingtons were made in two frame sizes, a smaller one for .36 Navy guns and the larger one for .44 Army guns. If that's so, then what I'm seeing seems to confirm something I've suspected for a while, that the Euroarms in either .36 or .44 is closer to the actual size of an original Navy model .36 Remington, and that the Pietta in either .36 or .44 is closer to the actual size of an original Army model .44 Remington. So the Pietta in both calibers is closer to the actual size of an original .44 Remington. The Euroarms in both calibers is closer to the actual size of an original .36 Remington. Does that make sense?

Also, the cylinders are for all intents and purposes identical except, of course, for the bore size of the charge holes (and the Euroarms has stainless steel nipples). I decided to test this by seeing if they could be exchanged: They can, and they both index and lock up just fine. Just something that might be useful to someone.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Frenchie,
From what I understand, the Euro Arms is supposed to be about the actual size of the original Remingtons. I do know that the Piettas are much bigger in the frame and grip then the originals are.

Bill

[Fox Creek Kid]

The Pietta '58 in .44 cal. is the best copy of an original as far as overall dimensions go IMHO. As for the .36 I don't know as I don't shoot pansy calibers.  Just kiddin'!  Seriously, supposedly the original Remmy .36 was made on a smaller frame. Ask someone who has an original.

[Frenchie]

Exactly! This is what I'm trying to pin down and get confirmation of, that only Euroarms makes their Remingtons the same size as the originals. So far what I can say for sure is that Pietta uses the same frame and cylinder for their .36 and .44 Remingtons. I bet Uberti does the same. Makes sense, it's cheaper than using two different sizes, but dang it, I have this thing about getting as close as I can to the originals in weight and size. My .36 Pietta with a 6.5" barrel is 2 lbs, 13.7 ozs and my .44 Euroarms with an 8" barrel is 2 lbs, 7.6 ozs. And I can get my hand around the Euroarms' grip easier.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I would like to know if the current Euroarms .36 has the proper cylinder pin location as the original Beals model. I know it doesn't have the hammer shape.

Go here for another look: http://www.antiquegunlist.com/detail.php?siteid=1413

[Fox Creek Kid]

Joss, when I was about 12, my dad bought me a Lyman .44 Remmy clone & I have read that it was a Beals clone somewhere. I traded it a year later for a ML'er. I think Uberti made the early Lyman ones but I could be wrong. By the way, where'd you get that iron escutcheon for the grip? Nice & authentic touch.   

[Frenchie]

OK, I guess I'll answer your question. But sure as God made little green apples, someone will take what I say and twist it around as normally happens, so, I promised myself to stay off the public NCOWS forum.

Not me! I'm looking for information, not an argument.

I have three original New Model Army Remington's in .44 caliber and one original in .36 caliber Navy Model. I also have several replicas in all varieties. The Pietta is the closest in over all dimension with some of the parts being interchangeable. The grip frame on a Pietta is a little longer at the base by 1/4". I have fitted pietta cylinders to a friend original as some of the nipples were broken off and he wanted to shoot it.

Now I am confused. My .36 Pietta (dated 2004) is larger in almost every dimension than my .44 Euroarms (dated 1999). The cylinders are identical in size and will swap, but durn near everything else is different.

Next, the Euroarms is a close copy of the Remington Beals .36 caliber with an inch longer barrel. They are not the Army size, they are all the Navy size frames. I have posted this picture before but I'll post it again. It is an Euroarms .44 that I have altered to replicate the Remington Beal's Navy Model. It still needs to have the barrel shortend, but I lost interest in the project.

Now that makes sense, that the Beals guns are all one frame size regardless of caliber. Do you mean that all the Euroarms are Navy size frames, or all the Beals are Navy size frames? That gun looks like my .44 Euroarms (the little 'step' at the rear of the trigger guard). Did you reline the barrel in .36 caliber and put a .36 caliber cylinder in it? Nice-looking piece, by the way.

The Uberti's are nice quality guns but their overall size is slightly smaller than my originals. I might add that even on the originals, the parts are not drop in replacements. The cylinders, grips, internal parts and even the cylinder pins have to be fitted to a particular gun.

Okay, more confusion. What I need is an authoritative, comprehensive source that compares originals with Euroarms, Pietta and Uberti and says whose is bigger. Does anyone know of such a source, or is this one of those gun mag articles that still needs to be researched and written? Why do I get the feeling there's a good reason it hasn't been written yet, such as the very real possibility of going mad trying to get enough information to write it? Seems to me this has had to've been discussed somewhere on some forum where droning pedants pontificate on this kind of tedious minutiae 

[Frenchie]

Frenchie, sorry about the quote of the first sentence in my afore post. It was definitely not directed towards you. Those to whom it was intended know exactly what I meant.

No problem, I know you weren't talking to me.

The Pietta .36 Navy is nothing more than the standard Army size frame with a little shorter barrel. Same with Uberti's .36 caliber. But the original Remington .44 and .36 were on two different sized frame. Obviously the .36 being a smaller frame. The Euroarms Remington, whether .44 or .36 are made on the same size smaller frame. Thus making the Euroarms closer is size to the original Remington Navy size frame. Euroarms use to make a .36 caliber Navy that was real close in every dimension to the original Remington New Model Navy but not Army.

Regarding your last paragraph. I guess I'm no authority, but I am a hobby gunsmith and I own  four original Remington's, three new Model Army's and one New Model Navy. I also own four Pietta .44 cal New Model Army, two Euroarms New Model Army (but have the Navy size frames) and one Uberti New Model Army in .44 caliber. I guess I'm no expert per se', but I do know how to compare guns and parts, and I did stay at the Holiday Inn once.

Bingo! That's what I'm looking for, I just needed it all put in one nutshell. That's what I suspected all along. So if I go with cartridge conversions and want the closest-to-the-original size frames I can get, for the US Army NCO persona, I need the Spencer rifle in 56-50 and a Pietta or Uberti Remington New Model Army with the Kirst Cartridge Konverter with Loading Gate. For the USN petty officer I need the same Spencer and a Euroarms 1851 or 1861 Navy Colt with the Kirst Cartridge Konverter with Loading Gate.

But then there's the 'brand-new' Colt Open Tops that are cartridge guns from the git-go. I can use those because my NCOWS period is 1866 to 1872. I can say I have 'connections' back in Hartford (I am, after all, from those parts) and got hold of an early production piece.

Looking over Cimarron and Taylor's sites makes me realize I've been wasting a lot of time and some money. I've bought guns that I don't need now. What I need to do, what I should have been doing all this time, is tell Steve (Nate Kiowa Jones) Young what I want and have him do his magic to them. And pay for it, of course 

Well, I'm going to shine up all but one of these several cap 'n' ball wheelguns and other things layng around and sell them on Auction Arms. I sure hope I've learned a lesson  Plan first, then act!

Joss, thanks a million! You've helped me a lot, really, now I have a much better idea of what is what and what I want/need to complete my impressions. Now it's time to lock it all down and start putting things together.