Wassa difference??

[Paladin UK]

Okay..........

What the difference between.

Tooling and Carving leather!!

I have seen both terms used, do they mean the same thing

Paladin (Whats gotta know ) UK

[Major 2]

I consider two wording functions as interchangeable, these days.

But , I think tooling is also used to define the use of stamps, punches etc. only to emboss leather.
Carving is just that, carving in the patterns.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I agree with Maj 231. I think of the difference being whether you use a swivel knife to cut in the pattern or not.

[Paladin UK]

Thanks pards.

Paladin (What is now an informed Cowpoke ) UK

[CQMD]

In examming many old holsters and many can be seen in the book Packing Iron, the patterns to adorn the holster were carved into the leather. The lines forming the pattern were more grooved into the leather and were not cut as what a swivel knife would do. The patterns were not beveled and there is no appearance of any tooling marks on the pattern. In tooling leather we cut the leather with the knife then bevel the edges to make it stand out in a 3d affect. The old way of carving left more to a 2d affect.

[Paladin UK]

Fer CQMD.........

Thanks for the added info, it all helps ta make the smoke clear.

Paladin (What lurvs the Holy Black ) UK

[Nolan Sackett]

the patterns to adorn the holster were carved into the leather. The lines forming the pattern were more grooved into the leather and were not cut as what a swivel knife would do.

The reason is that style of "tooling" wasn't always incised carved/cut at all - the patterns were often pressed/stramped all at once into the leather using a (sometimes heated) plate with the full pattern worked into it - a method that goes back to at least the middle ages - this method was widely used on the cheaper commercail holsters. But even when the piece was in fact carved (incised with a knife) such as the early (pre-1880) Main and Winchester style, the crafters didn't bevel/stamp/mold the leather after carving as much (sometimes not at all) as is usually done today - while the "modern method" is not new by any means, it really wasn't used to a great degree until the 1880's and later. Tio Sam Myers and others of his contemporaries are the ones who really developed the "modern" style of carving/tooling in the early 1900's.
Traditionally the term "tooling" (which term goes back to at least the Dark Ages), includes all forms of stamped/carved/molded  leather decoration including carving, whereas carving is just that - the leather's surface is incised with a knife of one type or another, in "modern times" that is most often a swivel knife.

[Skeeter Lewis]

What tools were used to incise designs in the Main and Winchester style before the more modern swivel knife came along?

[Dalton Masterson]

Good question. The one old incised holster I have is a mix of tear away type carving and just shallow cuts.

[Buck Stinson]

Not to split hairs, but incised carving is usually the "gouging out" of the leather rather than cutting it with a swivel knife. But incised carving can also be done with a swivel knife.  Now, are you thoroughly confused?  The best way to describe this would be three examples from my collection that are pictured in Packing Iron.  The holster on page 80 (left side) was incised carved with a swivel knife.  The Gallatin holster on page 85 (with gold scales) was incised carved with a gouge.  The leather was actually removed to create the carving pattern.  The Main & Winchester holster pictured on page 79 was done with a swivel knife, BUT because the carved pattern has a "stippled" back ground, it is not considered incised carving. Incised carving or as CQMD put it (2D) never has a stippled back ground.  3D carving always has a stippled back ground and that is what makes it 3D.  I have many M&W Slim Jims and all have a stippled back ground.  In fact my original 1894 M&W catalog shows only holsters with this back ground.

[Skeeter Lewis]

Thanks for that, Buck. Would it have been a gouger of a kind one could find nowadays?

[Buck Stinson]

I have a lot of pre-1900 saddle shop tooling stamps and hand tools, but I have never seen an old tool designed specifically for incised carving.  My guess is that it was probably along the same lines as the gouges that come with the Osborne scratch compass.  These are used for gouging stitch grooves.  There is also a hand stitch groove tool made by Jeremiah Watt that might work.  I have used the small gouge on my scratch compass to do incised carving and it works very well as long as it is sharp.  I like being able to pull the tool along the carving design, rather than pushing it.

[Tascosa Joe]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but, Buck how is your health?

[Buck Stinson]

I'm alive and well, Joe.  Thanks for asking.  Now if I could just get it through my head that I'm not 30 years old anymore, everything would be perfect.

[Skeeter Lewis]

Thanks for your response, Buck, and sorry to hear about your health issues.