Old .45 Colt Cartridges

[Grapeshot]

 Found three old .45 Colt rounds in a bucket at the Indoor Range. Still Unfired.

Head Stamp reads: USC Co - .45 Colt and has a copper colored primer with a US imprint on the primer. The bullet is a pointed lead conical.

Any Idea when they were made and who would buy them? I have no intention of shooting these old, and no doubt baloon head, cartridges. 

[St. George]

You say 'balloon-head' like it's a bad thing, yet properly stored and with no corrosion - cartridges have a surprisingly long shelf-life.

United States Cartridge Company started in 1863, in Lowell, Massachusetts.

In 1911 - it was purchased by National Lead - the leading competitor to Winchester in supplying lead for shotshells.

In 1921 - Winchester purchased National Lead and with it came the assets of USSCo.

In 1935 - Winchester-Western took over the firm and dropped the name.

Being manufactured for as long as they were - they're fairly common yet - with full boxes popping up from time to time.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Adirondack Jack]

Yep, US Cartridge, around a century old, give or take.

I acquired a bunch of fired cases, of various makes recently.  In the mix were 90+ ballooon head cases of various headstamps, all before 1935.  Since they came from Arizona, where some fellow picked cases up in the desert, they were all in fine shape.  I sold the ballon heads to a fellow CAS shooter and he's USING THEM so he can get a little more BP in his pistol loads for special occassions

[Grapeshot]

I'm not saying that Baloon Head cases are bad, I just don't know how old they are and don't want to risk destroying them ore shooting them and ruin their collector's value.

[Adirondack Jack]

We have to make the "collector value" or "shooting pleasure" decision from time to time.

  Now I guess if a certain item is really rare or of special significance (like the rounds known and proved to be in John Wesley Harding's gun when he was gunned down or some such) I go with collector and historical value and no right to shoot em, but if it's 1895 brass found in the desert or an 1882 pocket pistol or 1870s rolling block, uh, I shoot em

[Arcey]

I sold the ballon heads to a fellow CAS shooter and he's USING THEM so he can get a little more BP in his pistol loads for special occassions

Pardon the ignorance.......

When ya load these things, any special techniques or precautions?  Or, just stick 'em in the shell holder?

[Adirondack Jack]

Shell holder tolerance might be an issue.  If ya got one a hair sloppy, they might not wanna stay put.  The one's I have loaded run just like new ones.  Just don't run em in a rifle, yer extractor will likely jump the rim (no groove) and tie things up.

Brass is after all, mostly just a gasket. BP loads then or now work just fine in the old cases in any SAMMI spec .45 pistol.  The normal POTENTIAL problems still apply, namely case splits.  The case heads are essentially identical to all brass shotshell case heads, and are plenty strong enough for SAAMI LEVEL loads.  They are not for hotrod ruger level work, PERIOD.

I'd only run BP in em, which is all my pard, Heartless, a major boom and smoke addict, is gonna do.  He figures his 7.5 inch pistols will bark right proud with the old cases stuffed full on days he wants max effect.  On those days he runs his 10 ga 3.5 inch BP loads for "the big show" 

[w44wcf]

Grapeshot,

A cartridge dealer I've purchased cartridges from in the past charges $3.00 each for original black powder pistol cartridges.
So I would say that retail, that's about what they are worth. Wholesale, about 1/2 as much.  Now if you could find a fellow that would happen to be starting a USC Co cartridge collection, you might be able to get a bit more. 

St. George,
THANK YOU for the history lesson!  Interesting.  I did have some knowledge about the transition of USC Co to Winchester but  did not have the exact dates.  I do have some USC CO cartridges so headstamped with the 30 WCF nomenclature...no doubt made in the early 1930's time frame since thay have the new staynless primer which came in around that time.

Adirondak Jack, Arcey,
I have about 70 balloon head cases in .45 Colt that I have loaded several times with black powder (40 gr. charges) that are still going strong. I found that the shellholder for the belted magnums fits very well ........ the standard .45 Colt shellholder being too small since there is no groove forward of the rim.

A caution regarding balloon head cases. If they were originally fired with mercuric primers, the brass may be brittle and will rupture at some point in time ......not pretty.  The balloon head cases I use were unfired factory rounds from which I pulled the bullets and removed the powder and primers, then annealed the necks. So far, so good........

w44wcf

[Arcey]

Boys, thank ya for takin' the time ta answer my questions.  Much obliged.

[Rev Willy Duncum]

Thanks for this thread.  I just found a couple of these 45 cases mixed in with the rest of my brass from the last shoot.  DC 44  45 Colt with balloon heads.  They wouldn't fit in the shell holder of the press.  Interesting about their rims too.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

DC44?  That sounds like Dominion Cartridge Co.  Canadian made in 1944?  possibly for the RCMP?

Maybe Rattlesnake Jack could comment?