1860 Spencer

[Caleb Hobbs]

Greetings, Gentlemen:

I was hoping I might take advantage of some of the knowledge on this site. I bought the
1860 Spencer rifle that Pinkerton Agent posted here last weekend, and received it last
night. I'm pleased with it, but have some questions.

The muzzle has been cut back a couple of inches, the forestock shortened to about ten
inches, and a patchbox added to the butt. Before getting it, I'd toyed with the idea of
turning it into either a Gemmer-Spencer or a Sporting Rifle, but once I saw how unique it
already is, I kind of hate to change anything. My questions are these: Does this rifle, as is,
have any collector's value? If I blue the barrel or color-case harden the action, will I
devalue the rifle? Or should I leave it as original as possible?

There is some minor pitting in the bore, about eight inches in front of the chamber, and
the rifling is almost gone near the muzzle. I assume shooting it this way will have a
negative effect on the rifle's accuracy, right? (Accuracy is important to me, by the way.)
Should I replace the barrel, or can I have it relined? Is a relined barrel as accurate? I've
heard they aren't. If I have it relined to a .512 bore, will the action handle that smaller
cartridge, or do I need to keep it chambered as a .56 caliber? I have no urge to shorten the
barrel to carbine length, as I already have a Taylor's Spencer in that length.

The hammer-face seems to have a cut-out on the side where it strikes the firing pin that
my Armi-Sport Spencer doesn't have. It looks too perfect to have been caused by normal
wear and tear. Is this something all the original 1860s had?

Finally, if the barrel does need to be replaced or relined, who do you recommend? There
are plenty of gunsmiths locally here in Northern Utah, but I don't know of any of them
who have any experience with Spencers.

I appreciate your time, and look forward to your opinions.

Thanks,
Caleb Hobbs

[Grapeshot]

If you plan on shooting this Spencer then I'll give you this advice.  1).  Get the barrel rebored and sleeved to .56/.50 to kee all original markings.  2).  Get the barrel crowned by the same people that will do the sleeving.  3).  Contact S&S Firearms for a center fire replacement breech block.  4).  .512 would be about right for the bore.  Norm Johnson from High Plains Reboring does a great job on reboring and rifling.  You can find his add in the "Cowboy Chronicle".

Try to leave the rest of it in as original as posible.

Hope this helps.

[Caleb Hobbs]

Thanks for your feedback, Grapeshot. You're the second person who advised against rebluing, etc. Sounds like advice I should heed.

Does anyone have an opinion on the notched hammer-face? Is that normal for the 1860s, or unique to this rifle?

Thanks,
Caleb Hobbs

[Black River Smith]

No, that comment comes from reading Marcot's Spencer book.  Is it cutout back and deep enough that the hammer does not touch or move the firing plate?   Maybe it was ground down to deactivate the firing mechanism.

Just a thought.  My have to replace hammer.  See Dixie Gun Works.

[Caleb Hobbs]

Thanks Bkack River Smith. I may need to add Marcot's book to my wish list.

The hammer does touch the firing plate and will push it over halfway in. Maybe three-quarters of the way. I can easily push it flush with the action from there. I just don't know if half or three-quarters of the way is enough to detonate a primer. I'd say the notch was definitely put there on purpose. The firing plate is fairly loose, but maybe that's normal.

Thanks again for your help.

Caleb Hobbs

[Bead Swinger]

I'm not sure I would rebore the gun to 56-50, as I'm not sure that with modern brass it will extract properly;

I shoot an original rifle (SN23,954) with the S&S CF Block (highly recommended) and a replacement tube with a flattened follower (also highly recommended). Because of the dimensions in the action, the extractor will not properly throw a starline 56-50 brass case - the rim is just narrow enough that the case will allow the extractor blade to jam on the case after it has cleared the breech by about 1/2".  My concern is that even with reboring, your action/extractor will still have the same problem, and counteract the advantages of reboring.

Thoughts?

I'm not familiar with reboring - why would you rebore?  To allow the use of 56-50 Starline brass, etc.? Right now, I've had some very good success with using cut-down 50-70 brass with a .535 380-gr. heeled RNFP bullet. I'm probably going to order and try out some pre-formed 56-56 brass from Buffaloarms.

BeadSwinger
Erie, PA

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I agree with beadswinger. Leave it 56-56.  I have had two 56-56 1860 models.  One had an S&S block, one had a Buffalo Arms block.  I used Buffalo Arms cut down 50-70 and the 375/380 Rapine .535 heeled bullet.  We would bang the 6' 275 yard buffalo gong every time with it. Always fed, and always ejected.

I sold the first one to get the secong one (better gun) then sold the secon a few years later to pay for my daughters wedding.  Been using Taylor's 56-50s suince then, as I could afford to gear up to another 1860 and all the stuff.

[Caleb Hobbs]

Thanks, Bead Swinger and Tuolumne Lawman:

I'd kind of decided to stay with the .56, just because it's so unique, but it's good to have that extra information, too. Just reinforces the decision.

Tuolumne, I have an old friend of yours that I bought off Yankee Bandit last fall. Man, I love that Spencer. My wife does, too, but she says she won't shoot it again until I lighten the trigger pull.

Caleb