Triple 7 45 colt load ?

[Rusty Johnson]

Hodgdon shows 30 grains by volume( I assume they have allready allowed a 15% reduction) as the load for 45 Colt with a 250 grain LRNFP bullet. I calculate weight by grains to be about 22 grains. Does that sound like it is a safe load?

[Adirondack Jack]

Yep.   If ya move to a 200, then ya can get by with 23.5 grains by WEIGHT.  Now, once ya shoot em, if ya find they are a mite too much, ya should look at the thread on the Cowboy .45 Special.  That will be answer to a the "tamer" load for yer pistols.

[hellgate]

I would not shoot that load in a '72 Open Top or any Colt Conversion.

[Dakota Widowmaker]

What hellgate said.

hot 777 loads are not for toggle link actions.

I have fired a full case of 777 (well, just a small pinch of compression) in a 357magnum and a 45lc with big lube boolits and had reasonable accuracy out to 25 yards.

But, you can certainly feel it.

[hellgate]

My experience with 777 in the cartridge is limited to the 357mag. I have tried every BP sub from Black Canyon to 777 (as well as Black Mag3, ClearShot, Cleanshot, and APP). With BP or any of the subs the 50 yard shooting goes like this:
POW...............ding
With 777 it goes like this:
POW......ding!
You can feel the difference. I do not have a chronograph but suspect it is somewhere between BP and full tilt smokeless loads. I have had no problems with taking down big poppers at matches. I shoot a 158grSWC and 15grs (weight) of 777.

[Rusty Johnson]

Thanks for the info guys! The 777  load is listed  @ 830 fps that seems about par with factory smookless loads. I think I will order some 45 special brass Jack. sounds like it would be fun to shoot & save on powder too. What load by weight would you be a good start for 44 special with a 240 rnfp?

[Adirondack Jack]

Whatever it takes to JUST touch the base of the bullet when seated is a "minimum" load.  A hair of compression will make 777 more consistent, but ya might get by OK with the minimum in .44 special.

Now if ya meant to type ".45 special", I run that little pup with 13.2 grains WEIGHT with anything from a 200 to a 250 (250 runs a hair faster due to compression).  We're talking low 700s depending on BBL length, like maybe 700 to 730 fps.

[hellgate]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I don't think the 44 Special will shoot in a 45 Long Colt. The 44 Spl is the shortened version of the 44 Mag (just like the 38Spl & 357Mag). I think the 44 Spl has a larger rim whereas the 45 Colt has a fairly small rim. I could be wrong but I don't think you can shoot 44Spl in the 45Colt.

[Adirondack Jack]

Hellgate, yer right of course.  Rusty referred to it above, but I think he may have committed a typo, meaning ".45 Special" as in "Cowboy .45 Special" the new short round for use in .45 Colt pistols.

[Mason Stillwell]

got a question??
Dont take this the wrong way please.


If Hodgdon produced 777 for a highpowered hunting load why in the world would some want to use it for Cowboy Action Shooting ?? I would not want to put my guns thru the stress Let alone my hands, and Neck from the shotgun.

It is way high on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ scale Right

Mason

[Cedar County Sheriff]

I use 777 in .45 Colt cases, filled half way full, under a modern-lubed 250 Gr. bullet when shooting BP matches. This load shoots to the same point of aim as my smokeless load of 4.5 Gr. of Clays, in all seven of my handguns (various bbl lengths) as well as my 20" & 24" '73 rifles. And, clean up is a breeze with just plain water and a couple of patches. Compressing 777 really increases the power and does not seem to be necessary as these rounds are more accurate than I am ( I know, Hellgate, I ain't all that accurate ennyway) I do recommend a heavy crimp though.

Hope this helps!

[Adirondack Jack]

got a question??
Dont take this the wrong way please.


If Hodgdon produced 777 for a highpowered hunting load why in the world would some want to use it for Cowboy Action Shooting ?? I would not want to put my guns thru the stress Let alone my hands, and Neck from the shotgun.

It is way high on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ scale Right

Mason

777 is a little more costly where I am than BP (like about $20 VS $18/lb) but ya use LESS, as it is a light, fluffy volumetrically close equal to BP, so about 72 grains of 777 is around 100 grains of BP, so it works out a hair cheaper per shot.

Now it is HOT by CAS standards, but is a very neat powder that is easily metered safely in smokeless measures and is not the storage problem that BP is in some locales (tenants of apartments, etc) so it has those plusses and (forgive me, DD) ya can use ordinary smokeless lubed bullets.

So, in the big ole .45 case, the issue is the powder is supposed to be run at 100% charge density and the case is too big, as it was designed as a combat pistol cartridge rather than a target round or even a low powered BP police round in the British traditionof the Adams and Webley cartridges or the American rimfires.

So, what was clearly needed for use with 777 in .45 Colts is a shorter case.  Now we have one, the Cowboy .45 Special, that uses a hair over 13 grains (some use even less) VS roughly 23 grains (all by WEIGHT) of 777.  The short case works well with BP and smokeless too for action games

[River City John]

I don't know whether a .45cal that loads LESS BP is gonna be somethin' they'll tapdance to in here.

Now, show how they can pack even more BP into their .45Colt and they'll probably fall over themselves trying to buy you a drink at the saloon.

[Mason Stillwell]

I buy Prrodex for $12.99 per pound .That is a long way from $20.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mason

[Rusty Johnson]

The 44 special was not a typo. I also own a Rooger in 44mag. The reason I decided to use 777($18 something @ Sportsmans Wharehouse) is easy clean up & I also have 500 Meister smokeless lube bullets to load. The load I was asking about will be used in a USFA Pre War blackpowder frame. I don't shoot Cowboy Action but I may just blast a few jackrabbits just for grins...
I have been for 24 years but have never reloaded BP or subs & I thank you for all your replies. I sure don't wanna blow up my new gun! I gonna shoot it for the first time tomorrow.

[Adirondack Jack]

Yep, load yer .44 spceials with a 100% charge density load, (just use something to measure the depth to get it so yer bullet will just seat on top the charge with no space and no or very little compression) and yer gonna have a decent, relatively mild load that won't hurt yer gun.

[Rusty Johnson]

Shot the USFA Saturday! Tried two loads -#1 Goex balckdawg factory loads. I thought they were fun to shoot but were kinda wimpy. After 10 rounds I had a little cylinder hang up so I cleaned up the gun a bit. Ten more rounds & no more problems. Cleaned the gun up a little bit more( remember I am shooting a new gun so I am trying to season the bore). Load #2  22grains by weight of 777 under a 250 grain Meister smoakeless lube bullits. The 777 load was more accurate but not at all a warthog load. I think any modern gun should be able to shoot this load safely. Clean up was easy with both loads but the Goex left more residue. All said & done I had a blast moving over to the darkside but I like my 777 handload over the Goex load. Thanks to all of you for the input to my questions.

[rifle]

Interesting post about that 777 stuff. I like it in my cap&ballers and it even works well in muzzleloaders that have fast twist rifling when the rifle is built with cartridge type cal. and twist barrels. Example....40cal. barrel, .410 grooves, 400gr. bullet, .004 groove depth, 1-16 twist. Example....45cal. barrel, .458 grooves, 500gr. bullet, .004 groove depth, 1-22 twist. Wonder why the 777 works well in muzzleloaders and not so good in breech loader rifles?
One thing about the 777 listed in the replies above....there is no mention of granulation size is there? Wouldn't that be a consideration?  I understand that FFFg 777 is actually too hot fer the Italian guns. I understand that FFFg in cartridges should not be fired in the Repos and that a solid gun like a Ruger or Hawes should be used with that granulation. Is it just a "constant" given that FFg 777 should be used in cartridges and that's why granulation isn't mentioned above?

[rifle]

Interesting post about that 777 stuff. I like it in my cap&ballers and it even works well in muzzleloaders that have fast twist rifling when the rifle is built with cartridge type cal. and twist barrels. Example....40cal. barrel, .410 grooves, 400gr. bullet, .004 groove depth, 1-16 twist. Example....45cal. barrel, .458 grooves, 500gr. bullet, .004 groove depth, 1-22 twist. Wonder why the 777 works well in muzzleloaders and not so good in breech loader rifles?
One thing about the 777 listed in the replies above....there is no mention of granulation size is there? Wouldn't that be a consideration?  I understand that FFFg 777 is actually too hot fer the Italian guns. I understand that FFFg in cartridges should not be fired in the Repos and that a solid gun like a Ruger or Hawes should be used with that granulation. Is it just a "constant" given that FFg 777 should be used in cartridges and that's why granulation isn't mentioned above?  I understand that a 45 loaded with about 32-33 gr. is alright but going up to about 37gr. has a big effect. Like 777 is touchier than regular ole blackpowder. Right?

[Rusty Johnson]

Sorry for leavin' that out of the load info. FFG is all that hodgon recomends for cartridge loads!