unknown cartridge conversion

[Tubac]

Hi fellas, new guy here.
I have an original Rogers & Spencer revolver that has been converted to centerfire cartridge.
The back quarter of the cylinder has be removed and a machined round plate has been added.
The cylinder(original and matching S/N) bore diameter is .438" and the length is 1.51".
Thie bore is too narow for .44 special, .44/40 and I believe the .44 colt and remington.
A .41 magnum case fits fine.
Would anyone have any idea what cartridge this would take?
Thank you,
Tubac

[Black River Smith]

A wild guess would be a 44 Merwin and Hulberts or a 44 American.  Head/base diameters for those two ran around 0.440" according to some of the references.

[Tubac]

I don't know, Dixie Gun works suggests using the .44 special; cartridge to repoduce both of these rounds,
and a.44 special won't fit.
Thanks for the help.
Tubac

[St. George]

For the hell of it - try a .41 Colt - either Long or Short.

They were an outside-lubricated, heel-based bullet with a nominal diameter of .410.

You 'can' reload for them - but you've got to want to...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Tubac]

Are .41 Colts available?
A .41 magnum case with 20 grains of FFFG and a .428 lead flat nose bullet, work in the gun, but I thought that a .428 would be too small in a nominally .44 firearm. The barrel bore is .44, would a Colt .41 expand enough to engage the riflimg?Thanks

Tubac

[Black River Smith]

Read Dixie closer, it says to start with a 44 Spec and swage head/base down to 0.440" for both.  Normal base for 44Spec is ~0.455-7.  It does not say a 44 Spec 'as is' will fit.

The book 'The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions'  by John Donnelly:  for the 44 American states "to start with a 41Mag thin rim and trim case to length".

The production of the 44 M&H/ 44Am is not a perfect item the small 41Mag case with a full 0.429 bullet. Lead with be shaved.   But it is the one that has been used and suggested and exist short of custom equipment.  The above book lists the bullet diameter for 44Am as 0.434" but it was a heeled bullet.

The revolver and casing will shoot and fire a piece of lead.  But not all conversions were designed or created for accuracy.  Barrel /bullet dia / chamber dimensions were not perfect according to modern day numerics.  They were created/converted for throwing lead and provide convenience.

Hope this additional information helps.

[Evil]

Hi, Tubac, I'm Evil, and I usually just lurk around. But I thought you would be interested in seeing this: http://www.armchairgunshow.com/otsAZ_conversions.htm  Check about 2/3 of the way down the page. The one shown is rimfire and maybe yours was too, then converted to centerfire.

Buffalo Arms has centerfire .44 Henry brass (yes, there was such a thing) on this page: http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=25&catid=37&step=2 and real .44 American brass here: http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm?viewfrom=13&catid=37&step=2  or maybe .44 bulldog would work. But you should slug your bore and your chambers. The chambers are most likely bored straight through so that shouldn't be a problem. The other thing to consider is how thick the rim should be. By "thick" I don't mean diameter but rather top to bottom. Some of the early cartridges (mostly English) had very thin rims.

Evil

[Tubac]

Hi Evil,

.41 Magnum shells chamber and function fine, so I guess the rim thickness is Ok.
If it was made to shot rimfire, it won't now as the hammer has been modified.
The .44 american brass looks interesting, and i just might buy some.
I also have a Remington New Army that was converted to .44 rimfire by the factory,
then converted  to centerfire, by some enterprising gunsmith.
I want to thank you all for all of  the information.
Tubac

[Evil]

Somebody once told me that the .41 magnum was developed from the .44 American case. I don't know how true that is, but that's what somebody told me. It's believable, though, since the base diameter for the .41 mag. is .433 and the base diameter for the .44 American is .440. That's pretty much the same, particularly with black powder. And the great part is that the rim fits.

Evil